GM Makes Buyout Offers To Buick Dealers

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Tax code is part of what gets called a “subsidy“ depending on the narrative - spend a couple minutes seeing how many of these resources are included that you never hear about

A lot of good information here. Subsidy is a buzzword used by politicians to generate emotions of envy.
 
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Is this the beginning of no haggle dealer direct pricing at GM? Copying the Tesla modeI is inevitable by the big 3 and everyone else.
 
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Maybe EVs will be fine in warm climates...I don't really know. But as yet I have seen nothing to indicate to me that they will be viable as daily high-use vehicles in an extended cold-climate winter. By that I mean avg hi temp of 30F or less with the possibility of overnight lows below 0F. Possibly being parked outdoors or in an unheated garage. Especially in elevated terrain. Please convince me otherwise.
 
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Maybe EVs will be fine in warm climates...I don't really know. But as yet I have seen nothing to indicate to me that they will be viable as daily high-use vehicles in an extended cold-climate winter. By that I mean avg hi temp of 30F or less with the possibility of overnight lows below 0F. Possibly being parked outdoors or in an unheated garage. Especially in elevated terrain. Please convince me otherwise.
I have a neighbor doing it now. Two Teslas, most often both gone during the day. Tesla roof on the home with battery tied into house current. Sometimes they're plugged in when I go by. More often not. We average 100" of snow every winter, so not exactly a warm climate.
 
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Depends on the brand. I'm sure you know lotsa car companies have had bailouts. loans, etc.
Not to mention big oil subsidies...
indeed true, thank you for the reminder.

i should have added that green virtue-signaling; one-way, consequences-be-darned diktats to an only-e.v. future; hypocritical environmental and social damage due to extraction of e.v.-necessary raw materials; the carbon credit/trading scam; and demonization of fossil fuels over unproven/sketchy manmade global warming allegations all concern me too, but these concerns are endlessly hashed here and often lead to threadlock.

now, if buick were to announce replacement of gas tanks with a tube of nuke juice, i’m all ears…
 

JHZR2

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Depends on the brand. I'm sure you know lotsa car companies have had bailouts. loans, etc.
Not to mention big oil subsidies...
Which give a misleading price on their website that uses assumptions of fuel and tax savings?
 

JHZR2

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Maybe EVs will be fine in warm climates...I don't really know. But as yet I have seen nothing to indicate to me that they will be viable as daily high-use vehicles in an extended cold-climate winter. By that I mean avg hi temp of 30F or less with the possibility of overnight lows below 0F. Possibly being parked outdoors or in an unheated garage. Especially in elevated terrain. Please convince me otherwise.
Norway would prove you otherwise.

Significant EV use over there. The number of Tesla cars I saw was massive.

They use EVs to pull trailers… boats. Not huge ones but trailers and boats all the same.

They have a network of chargers. Anyplace that our PHEV went we could charge. Even north of the arctic circle there were loads of Tesla chargers.

Now, at least Northern Norway has been hooked on practically free hydroelectric electricity that soon they’ll be exporting to the rest of Europe at market rates. But that’s a different situation and discussion than your premise.

There were no complaints about EVs in far northern climates (we spent all our time in Northern Norway, much above the arctic circle, and I actively discussed EVs with people since we used Airbnb and everyone spoke a English).

So there’s that.

The only time I spent in southern Norway was at the Oslo airport. But I saw Teslas set up like this Renault, on the E6 multiple times.
3A066C86-700D-499E-A12D-D789EECCF476.jpeg


Other pics of relevance:

Common for any vehicle to have a hitch, but I was quite surprised at the number of teslas with them, and the number I saw actually pulling trailers:
AE7DFFA5-25B0-4611-819D-080D89FF3540.jpeg

More super chargers than gas/diesel pumps:
B8AD5011-8B89-4A79-B592-449F6F6C7621.jpeg


Some homes have updated chargers, particularly if they have a full EV. We charged our PHEV at a standard wall outlet, 12A/220V in every place we stayed that didn’t have a bigger charger. But otherwise you can get more. This isn’t great if you’re moving long distances on highway voyages, but that’s why at the gas stations, every one has 22kW and 50kW chargers.

97B49183-9FE8-4EC8-A741-8E790CA84ABB.jpeg

39E2CA78-E458-4463-9CAD-C5AEB7F95142.jpeg


Simple enough that my 9yo could do it with total confidence and safety.

So, yeah, there may be reasons for concern. I only own a hybrid. I’m personally a PHEV believer, more so now having driven over 1000km in one. But the EV thing isn’t an issue to these folks’ daily use, fringe cases aside. I thing the frigid cold situation was also put to bed by the ability of the teslas jammed up on I-95 in VA for days… to keep giving heat and keep operating….

So definitely less of an issue based upon objective use scenarios from real people…
 
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Is this the beginning of no haggle dealer direct pricing at GM? Copying the Tesla modeI is inevitable by the big 3 and everyone else.

It is about time that something like this started or hopefully starts. Back in the early 2000's I wanted a base Model Chevrolet Impala, the dealer that is now closed quoted me a price $1900.00 more than the Dealer that is still open.

I also remember looking at a brand new 2005 Mustang GT and we were at 29K a few months later we were down to 24K, I told the guy 23K, he said no, then I ended up buying a used car. He calls me a month later and says we can do 23K

There is a part of me today that wishes I was driving that Mustang.
 
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Norway would prove you otherwise.

Significant EV use over there. The number of Tesla cars I saw was massive.

They use EVs to pull trailers… boats. Not huge ones but trailers and boats all the same.

They have a network of chargers. Anyplace that our PHEV went we could charge. Even north of the arctic circle there were loads of Tesla chargers.

Now, at least Northern Norway has been hooked on practically free hydroelectric electricity that soon they’ll be exporting to the rest of Europe at market rates. But that’s a different situation and discussion than your premise.

There were no complaints about EVs in far northern climates (we spent all our time in Northern Norway, much above the arctic circle, and I actively discussed EVs with people since we used Airbnb and everyone spoke a English).

So there’s that.

The only time I spent in southern Norway was at the Oslo airport. But I saw Teslas set up like this Renault, on the E6 multiple times.
View attachment 115767

Other pics of relevance:

Common for any vehicle to have a hitch, but I was quite surprised at the number of teslas with them, and the number I saw actually pulling trailers:
View attachment 115768
More super chargers than gas/diesel pumps:
View attachment 115769

Some homes have updated chargers, particularly if they have a full EV. We charged our PHEV at a standard wall outlet, 12A/220V in every place we stayed that didn’t have a bigger charger. But otherwise you can get more. This isn’t great if you’re moving long distances on highway voyages, but that’s why at the gas stations, every one has 22kW and 50kW chargers.

View attachment 115770
View attachment 115771

Simple enough that my 9yo could do it with total confidence and safety.

So, yeah, there may be reasons for concern. I only own a hybrid. I’m personally a PHEV believer, more so now having driven over 1000km in one. But the EV thing isn’t an issue to these folks’ daily use, fringe cases aside. I thing the frigid cold situation was also put to bed by the ability of the teslas jammed up on I-95 in VA for days… to keep giving heat and keep operating….

So definitely less of an issue based upon objective use scenarios from real people…
Even if EVs perform as described, the network of charging support for vehicles traveling long distances in the USA is nowhere near adequate for the assumed future need and the cost of establishing that support won't be cheap. Even when charging is easily available on the major highways, it will take much longer to get the same level of service in rural areas.
 

JHZR2

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Even if EVs perform as described, the network of charging support for vehicles traveling long distances in the USA is nowhere near adequate for the assumed future need and the cost of establishing that support won't be cheap. Even when charging is easily available on the major highways, it will take much longer to get the same level of service in rural areas.
That’s not the question I was answering. The issue brought up was EVs in far northern and cold climates. And the example I gave from firsthand recent experience was associated with people in far rural areas, including far north of the Arctic circle and far off of “major” roads (not by US standards) like the E6.

I have been, and will continue to be a fan of the PHEV for ultimate flexibility and options. Liquid hydrocarbons are dense and easy to handle.
 
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Well, I'll never buy a new Buick anyway and I certainly will never buy an electric car.
 
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