GM Introduces Dexos I and Dexos II

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Sounds to me like a great excuse to build up the oil stash even more! Cheaper and better oil can be had right now from the sound of it. AD
 
 Originally Posted By: Hitzy
 Quote:
“OEMs want fuel economy first and foremost, plus emissions system protection, oil robustness, turbo cooking protection, cam phaser protection and general engine protection,”
Wow....I guess bankruptcy isn't enough to get it though their heads....make what the consumer wants, not what YOU want.
Fuel economy is what the customer wants. I don't think 200k mile longevity is a major concern of most buyers. Fuel economy is also what Congress is telling automakers to focus on. Everyone is forgetting GM is no longer a privately run company. It is government run (or will be very shortly). Congress is focused on making GM more green; after all the years of fighting to raise CAFE they won the battle. And does everyone think this will be a GM-only thing? With CAFE going way way up, even Honda won't be able to meet the new MPG numbers without some combination of changes, one of which may be a new standard for Honda-approved oil.
 
 Originally Posted By: tonycarguy
 Originally Posted By: Hitzy
 Quote:
“OEMs want fuel economy first and foremost, plus emissions system protection, oil robustness, turbo cooking protection, cam phaser protection and general engine protection,”
Wow....I guess bankruptcy isn't enough to get it though their heads....make what the consumer wants, not what YOU want.
Fuel economy is what the customer wants. I don't think 200k mile longevity is a major concern of most buyers. Fuel economy is also what Congress is telling automakers to focus on. Everyone is forgetting GM is no longer a privately run company. It is government run (or will be very shortly). Congress is focused on making GM more green; after all the years of fighting to raise CAFE they won the battle. And does everyone think this will be a GM-only thing? With CAFE going way way up, even Honda won't be able to meet the new MPG numbers without some combination of changes, one of which may be a new standard for Honda-approved oil.
Of course FE is what the consumer wants as well, but why doesn't GM build better engines/trannies/gearing then? Make lighter more aerodynamic cars? Or diesel? It doesn't make any sense to me to try and accomplish better MPG through the fluids designed to protect your engine. We have seen it with 5w20 that the gains are absolutely minimal.
 
 Originally Posted By: brian12
I won't be buying any more GM's now that the supreme socialist runs the company. So yeah, I could care less what they do.
I didn't buy GM BEFORE now because of the short sighted greedy captialist pigs that ran the company and drove it into the ground. True about the expense of maintaining a modern car. It is simply becoming too expensive to own a car. I think just like everything thing else there comes a time when complexity becomes excessive and man has to throttle back and reconsider things. We have reached that point with the automobile as of now.
 
 Originally Posted By: Vizzy
 Originally Posted By: brian12
I won't be buying any more GM's now that the supreme socialist runs the company. So yeah, I could care less what they do.
I didn't buy GM BEFORE now because of the short sighted greedy captialist pigs that ran the company and drove it into the ground. True about the expense of maintaining a modern car. It is simply becoming too expensive to own a car. I think just like everything thing else there comes a time when complexity becomes excessive and man has to throttle back and reconsider things. We have reached that point with the automobile as of now.
Have fun walking!
 
 Quote:
"According to GM, it is creating Dexos for the sake of environmental protection, increased product performance and greater ease of product management. In order to meet both robustness and fuel economy requirements, Dexos will most likely have to manufactured from Group III synthetic base stock and an anti-wear additive containing molybdenum. Group III is a very highly refined petroleum base stock that meets the performance definition of traditional “synthetic” motor oil made from man-made polyalfaolefin (PAO) Group IV base stock. Either way, expect Dexos to be a synthetic motor oil, and expect it to be priced accordingly."
And how is this any different than what is going on with specs at any company anywhere. People complain about moly???!? We dont see ridiculous prices for high moly oils such as the last iteration of havoline, PYB, we dont see severe price issues with schaeffer's 7000... Price increases have been tied to raw materials costs, petroleum costs and steel costs, not to a rogue oil spec... API SM and the specs for 5w-20 oils caused as much pressure on inceased prices as anything else... who are we kidding? This isnt an isolated GM thing... If GM called their spec BMW LL-04, would folks be as up in arms? Note again what they stated: "According to GM, it is creating Dexos for the sake of environmental protection, increased product performance and greater ease of product management." So just like everyones' favorite Honda did... they found that the eco friendly oils that were out there did not meet the protection requirements, and had to put in their own spec. And what are we finding with 5w-20 oils now? Guess what, we cannot have our cake and eat it too. If everyone would follow my suggestion that no car needs more than 120hp, then there wouldnt be the draw for super-power-dense engines, CAFE wouldnt be an issue, and API SM would be good enough for >80%. But we want to mash the go-pedal and go with no regard for physics or mechanical operation... then want 30+ MPG... then want a long warranty included... and then don't want to use a high-quality oil. THings do not practically balance that way.
 
I think GM is conceeding what many knew already, that these superduper CAFE numbers are going to require a squeeze at every possible point possible. Just like no one "alternative fuel" can replace oil, no one magic formula is going to give GM a 35 mpg CAFE fleet remotely resembling anything it has today. BTW, not that it matters as much now, but I remember reading a few months back that Chrysler was fighting the addition of more moly b/c of high temp deposits they feared it might cause over extended periods in turbocharged apps???
 
I think America's romance with the car is coming to an end. Maybe only on the new car end of things. While I've surely participated, I see little desire to "manage" a new car purchase. My next thrill will be finding a very used Scion Xb (small engine) and making that clown car a sleeper with a turbo. It will run on SZ 0w-10 oil.
 
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So just like everyones' favorite Honda did... they found that the eco friendly oils that were out there did not meet the protection requirements, and had to put in their own spec.
Is that a reference to HTO-06? M1 and PP are not eco friendly?
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
And what are we finding with 5w-20 oils now?
They work just fine where specified, don't they?
 
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
 Quote:
"According to GM, it is creating Dexos for the sake of environmental protection, increased product performance and greater ease of product management. In order to meet both robustness and fuel economy requirements, Dexos will most likely have to manufactured from Group III synthetic base stock and an anti-wear additive containing molybdenum. Group III is a very highly refined petroleum base stock that meets the performance definition of traditional “synthetic” motor oil made from man-made polyalfaolefin (PAO) Group IV base stock. Either way, expect Dexos to be a synthetic motor oil, and expect it to be priced accordingly."
And how is this any different than what is going on with specs at any company anywhere. People complain about moly???!? We dont see ridiculous prices for high moly oils such as the last iteration of havoline, PYB, we dont see severe price issues with schaeffer's 7000... Price increases have been tied to raw materials costs, petroleum costs and steel costs, not to a rogue oil spec... API SM and the specs for 5w-20 oils caused as much pressure on inceased prices as anything else... who are we kidding? This isnt an isolated GM thing... If GM called their spec BMW LL-04, would folks be as up in arms? Note again what they stated: "According to GM, it is creating Dexos for the sake of environmental protection, increased product performance and greater ease of product management." So just like everyones' favorite Honda did... they found that the eco friendly oils that were out there did not meet the protection requirements, and had to put in their own spec. And what are we finding with 5w-20 oils now? Guess what, we cannot have our cake and eat it too. If everyone would follow my suggestion that no car needs more than 120hp, then there wouldnt be the draw for super-power-dense engines, CAFE wouldnt be an issue, and API SM would be good enough for >80%. But we want to mash the go-pedal and go with no regard for physics or mechanical operation... then want 30+ MPG... then want a long warranty included... and then don't want to use a high-quality oil. THings do not practically balance that way.
+1 He speaks the truth. As long as I can still change my oil with something aftermarket (oil) and oil filter, and I have a choice, I will be fine. It might be pricey at first, but just like the LCD TVs, when everyone does it, prices should drop pretty quickly. I'm already thinking about my next car (2012 Chevy Cruze/Honda Civic), and was planning to run Amsoil/M1 to offer the best protection possible. I still want to be able to care for my engine. GM will not be the only company introducing this: Ford and Toyota are not far behind.....
 
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It seems that GM is really complicating things, and taking a step backward in technology. They're like a dog chasing it's tail, trying to iron out this issue they've created. And we are surprized they are bankrupt??? lol
 
 Originally Posted By: daves87rs
GM will not be the only company introducing this: Ford and Toyota are not far behind.....
Toyota is moving their entire line-up to 0w-20 in the near future, according to the Prius product manager who had a chat with PriusChat.
 
 Originally Posted By: Hitzy
Of course FE is what the consumer wants as well, but why doesn't GM build better engines/trannies/gearing then? Make lighter more aerodynamic cars? Or diesel? It doesn't make any sense to me to try and accomplish better MPG through the fluids designed to protect your engine. We have seen it with 5w20 that the gains are absolutely minimal.
Lighter cars = ones that can not meet government safety regs cheaply. Diesel cars = ones that can not meet government smog regs cheaply. Get the "drift" ?
 Originally Posted By: daves87rs
I'm already thinking about my next car (2012 Chevy Cruze/Honda Civic), and was planning to run Amsoil/M1 to offer the best protection possible. I still want to be able to care for my engine. GM will not be the only company introducing this: Ford and Toyota are not far behind.....
That is if the government will ALLOW oil that you would want to buy from Amsoil. You think they want us to keep our older cars running? They will either make it so expensive to keep them up or "fee" (another word for TAX) us out of ownership. Then you will HAVE to buy their car or take public transit. Don't have public transit? You then live too far away and must pay for urban sprawl. (and I'm sure you may be able to buy "credits" for your wasteful life style) It's a new US! We all need to do our "share"....
 
 Originally Posted By: The Critic
 Originally Posted By: daves87rs
GM will not be the only company introducing this: Ford and Toyota are not far behind.....
Toyota is moving their entire line-up to 0w-20 in the near future, according to the Prius product manager who had a chat with PriusChat.
Every automaker is in the process of making plans now....
 
Realistically, what is the improvement in fuel economy with these new oils - 0.5%*? I can't get too excited over that. My "napkin" calculation shows that it saves roughly one gallon of gas per oil change. Big whoop. * - The number came from an issue of Lubes & Greases where Volvo did a controlled study on 5W-20 vs 5W-30 usage in fleet vehicles. They also found a corresponding rise in Fe levels during UOA.
 
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
{snip}If everyone would follow my suggestion that no car needs more than 120hp, then there wouldnt be the draw for super-power-dense engines, CAFE wouldnt be an issue, and API SM would be good enough for >80%.{snip}
Did you follow your own advice when you bought your last new car, VW I believe?
 
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