GM 3.4L LIM Gasket replacement...

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Onmo'Eegusee
I am looking at a PI down in Oregon. Its used, but its been recalibrated professionally.

Buying an used torque wrench is like buying used underwear.

Torque wrenches are precision instruments. If it has been dropped before or used to break bolts loose, that could potentially damage it. When you buy an used one, you do not know how it has been treated.

I would just buy a new one. The CDI one that I listed earlier will last you many years.


So, you recommend buying a new torque wrench every time it is dropped? Stop the insanity. There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a used torque wrench that has been calibrated to NIST traceable standards. I assume Onmo meant NIST traceable when he said professionally.

 

[benjamming]

Onmo,

I didn't need to replace the fuel rail o-rings when I did it recently. The other gaskets is that Fel-Pro kit are probably EGR valve gaskets. Also, can you just clean up the old bolts if you want & apply sealer? I don't kow how much you are paying for the bolts. If it's not much I would probably get new bolts as well. I got the new oil pump seal from the dealer for a couple bucks.

 

[rat]

Also be very careful with the pushrods, I believe intake and exhaust are slightly different lengths. One of our techs accidentally swapped two of them once and we ended up giving the customer a new engine.

 

[benjamming]

Yep, one is 5.75" & one is 6" long on the 3.1L. I used Redline Assembly Lube on the pushrods when reinstalling.

 

[onion]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Onmo'Eegusee
I am looking at a PI down in Oregon. Its used, but its been recalibrated professionally.

Buying an used torque wrench is like buying used underwear.

Torque wrenches are precision instruments. If it has been dropped before or used to break bolts loose, that could potentially damage it. When you buy an used one, you do not know how it has been treated.

I would just buy a new one. The CDI one that I listed earlier will last you many years.


So, you recommend buying a new torque wrench every time it is dropped? Stop the insanity. There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a used torque wrench that has been calibrated to NIST traceable standards. I assume Onmo meant NIST traceable when he said professionally.


Exactly... ain't like we're working on the Space Shuttle here. I turn nuts and bolts all day, 5-6 days per week. Some I torque, some I hand-tighten, some I install with an impact- it's a judgement call. Factors like thread condition, thread lube (or lack thereof), the condition and shape of the bolt head and the mating surface all affect actual bolt stretch vs. bolt. A high-dollar torque wrench that was perfectly calibrated yesterday, stored in an underground climate controlled vault, guarded by redundant layers of security... won't change these 'other' factors one bit. There's ALWAYS some amount of uncertainty, and that's where those judgment calls happen.

Personally, I have one China torque wrench, a Matco, a Mac, and a Snap-on. I have them calibrated every year or two, and occasionally check them against other torque wrenches if I have any doubt. Don't recall dropping any of them, but it wouldn't worry me much if I did. If the torque was THAT far off, it would be obvious enough.

 

[Colt45ws]

On the fuel rail: I saw a link where someone did have to replace them. They started leaking when they put it back together so they had to take the upper all apart again. It is only a couple bucks so Ill just replace them.

 

[onion]

Ben got lucky IMO, as his fuel rail came out easy. In my experience, if the engine has never been apart before and has 100k+ miles on it, there's a very good chance that those injectors will be stuck TIGHT in the holes. It'll require lots of prying and cussing to remove- you'll have to be careful so as not to damage the injectors and/or fuel rails.

The last LIM job I did on a 3100 (this was a '94 model), I removed the lower intake without removing the fuel rails. I just removed the two hold-down bolts so that the rails could be flexed about 1/8" to gain access to the bolts. Saved a lot of trouble.

I agree with Ben on the bolts. Don't know what you're paying, but they're usually quite expensive from the dealer. These are not a highly stressed item. Nothing wrong with cleaning up the old bolts and putting some locktite on them.

Also, GM has come out with a new and improved oil pump drive o-ring. Might be worth a trip to the dealer to get the latest and greatest fix for this common leak.

Your application doesn't use that same heater hose connector assembly that Ben dealt with on his '94 Pontiac... yours uses an o-ring instead (much better design, IMO). I'm not sure that said o-ring comes with the MS98003T kit. It would probably be a good idea to pick one of those up while you stop in for that oil pump drive o-ring.

And I know I'm repeating what others have said- but whatever you do, KEEP THE PUSHRODS IN ORDER. I've seen it time and again on internet forums where people undertake this job, get a pushrod out of place, and do major engine damage. Once the engine is back together, you can turn it slowly a couple of revolutions to make sure that there's no interference. If a pushrod is out of place, it'll clunk to a stop (hopefully) without damaging anything. A co-worker of mine saved himself some major trouble once by doing this- somehow got two pushrods swapped.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

There is a relatively cheap specialty tool from Lisle ($18 at Amazon) that allows you to compress the valve spring and just pull out the push rod. That saved me some time.
Make sure your thermostat bypass pipe isn't leaking where it is pressed into the LIM. It was leaking badly on the car I worked on, and I had a lot of trouble trying to figure out how to put such a poor design back together with no leaks. Turned out the "part" I couldn't figure out was listed as GM red threadlocker. Bought a bottle of the overpriced stuff (probably the same thing as permatex) from the dealer, and it sealed nicely (for now).

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
So, you recommend buying a new torque wrench every time it is dropped? Stop the insanity. There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a used torque wrench that has been calibrated to NIST traceable standards. I assume Onmo meant NIST traceable when he said professionally.

If the torque wrench has been professionally calibrated to NIST standards, then yes, I would agree with you that it is probably an acceptable choice.

However, the price of a high quality (e.g. CDI, Precision Instruments, etc) torque wrench that has been professionally recalibrated is not much less than the cost of a new one. For just a few bucks, for the peace-of-mind, I would just buy a new one.

 

[Colt45ws]

I just placed the order. I switched to Denso Spark plugs, wires, and added a Denso O2 for the front.

 

[onion]

It might be a good idea to wait a day or two after you've completed the repair before you swap oxygen sensors. No need to foul that new sensor with silicon fumes, brake cleaner, etc.

 

[Colt45ws]

Ooo, That might be a good idea. Although a PITA one. Talk about laying across the engine.

 

[pitzel]

Originally Posted By: Onmo'Eegusee
Well, this is what I have..any additions/exclusions/changes?
Engine : Intake Manifold Bolt Set; FEL-PRO Part # ES72226, OHV engine; Loc. Lower; Replacement required


Just reuse the old bolts. A tube of the permatex or loc-tite blue works just fine.


Quote:

Engine : Intake Manifold Gasket; FEL-PRO Part # MS98003T {Set}, OHV engine; Valve cover gskts. & Upper set incl.; PermaDryPlus® int. manifold gskts. incl.


You're wasting your money replacing the valve cover gaskets. All you really need is the LIM gasket, and of course, the RTV sealant to seal the bottom.


Quote:

Fuel/Air : Fuel Rail O-Ring Kit; ACDELCO Part # 217461, {#17113034}, SEAL KIT,F/INJN FUEL RL


Unless you lose parts, you shouldn't need this either.

Quote:

Cooling System : Radiator Cap; STANT Part # 10331, Safety Release Vented Cap (Open or Closed System) - 16 psi (SAE Range 14-18 psi)}


Don't waste your money. Radiator cap? Those things are good for the life of the vehicle.

Quote:

Ignition : Spark Plug Wire Set; ACDELCO Part # 726UU, {7mm Wires #12192462}, WIRE KIT,SPLG


Not really necessary either.

Quote:

Ignition : Spark Plug; ACDELCO Part # 41979, {PLATINUM PLUG}, SPARK PLUG .060 GAP
Engine : Oil Pump Seal; DORMAN Part # 90441, {HELP! #10477565}


You may also want to get a Chevy distributor gasket, to install to seal the oil pump drive, and the block. I don't have a P/N handy, but its usually recommended on the 3.1/3100/3400 engines.

Also, save your sanity and get yourself the proper clamp compressor tool. If you're messing around using vice grips, or pliars, you'll end up expending a lot more effort than necessary.

 

[Colt45ws]

Quote:


Quote:

Cooling System : Radiator Cap; STANT Part # 10331, Safety Release Vented Cap (Open or Closed System) - 16 psi (SAE Range 14-18 psi)}


Don't waste your money. Radiator cap? Those things are good for the life of the vehicle.


OH! The OE cap on my 80000mi 1998 Cavalier must have been fine when I replaced it. Sure it was leaking and not holding pressure, but its supposed to last the life of the vehicle, so it must be something else. Ill have too look into a fixed problem again when I get done with this.

 

[Colt45ws]

Project commences tonight. Start draining oil and coolant then pull all the unecessary garbage blocking my path.

 

[Colt45ws]

I looked at the FelPro gasket kit. It looks likt the two smaller gaskets are for the thermostat housing and the distributor shaft seal or something along those lines which Im guessing is actually the oil pump drive seal.
Got along a lot farther than I had hoped so far. Already pulled the upper.
Was looking at the Heater hoses and it looks like one is starting to leak. Its actually just seeping, but Im going to replace both of them now to be safe. I didnt buy many hoses online so I could inspect them and see if they needed replacement. The lower rad hose is kind of puffy in one spot as will. I will pull it and inspect it, but may just do the rad hoses as well. On the flip side the serpentine belt, which I believe to be OE, is in good condition, so it will be going back on.
I was looking at the O2 sensor, and yeah, its getting changed out now, there is essentially no way to get to it without tearing it halfway apart again.
I found the EGR tube hanging on to the exhaust manifold almost just by gravity. It was that loose. No wonder it kept popping EGR codes.

 

[Colt45ws]

Finally got most of the brackety out of the way. Stopped there so I can get some sleep.. Could have pulled the LIM, but it just means it would sit open longer. I can pull the manifold, but I would not be able to torque it down. I see why a crows foot is recommended. Have to go hunt down a 10 em em crows foot tomorrow.

 

[Colt45ws]

*Addendum to previous post...*
Ended up pulling the PS pump completely out, as the metal lines aould not give enough to just move it out of the way, but it was not too bad removing it. The alternator was harder. Had to remove the motor mounts and pull the motor forward with some straps to gain clearance for one of the bolts.

 

[benjamming]

How were the fuel injector o-rings?
Were the power steering lines in good shape & not showing signs of leakage?

 

[Colt45ws]

Have not looked at the PS lines. I was able to fold the fuel rail out of the way without disconnecting the lines. So I have extra o-rings, but oh well, it was a JIC thing.