GIII vs PAO , again!

Messages
252
Location
AB, Canada
Has ANYBODY!?, Run GIII oil through multiple extended drain intervals, then done UOAs? Has ANYBODY!? done a legitimate, comparitive cold pour test at a COLD temp, IE -30 C (- 22 F)or colder... Can ANYBODY!? tell exactly what the composition is of Brand X synthetic oil? (IE...QS, what the heck IS it?...or GC, etc.) Maybe somebody could make an up to date list? IMO, too much bashing ( I am as guilty as anyone!); time for some testing...
 
Messages
2,095
Location
IL
Cold pour on finished lube doesn't mean much, they could load it up with PPD. The chevron paper mentioned has the data you want.
 
Messages
8,467
Location
Colorado
I agree that testing is necessary. I have not seen much in the way of testing done on Group III motor oils. But perhaps not many at this web site use Group IIII motor oils. Unless you have a really cold freezer, or live in Minnesota, it is hard to test the flow of motor oils in extreme cold. If there are people at this web site that use American Castrol Syntec, and Chevron Synthetic, etc., they could do UOAs on these motor oils. People who live in areas of cold winters could test motor oils for flow in extreme cold.
 
Messages
1,539
Location
Shippensburg, PA
AHHHHHHHH.... I can't take it! This PAO vs Group III talk is driving me insane! [Happy] Nothing of value to add... I'll go back to reading about my cheap dino oils, cuz I like crawling under my car every 3-5k. [Wink]
 
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2,480
Although I was going to run the Syntec 5-50 my standard 9-10k mi. interval, I switched to the TWS 10-60 (that I think I'm sticking with) early. However, I personally think it can run the distance as well as any other A3 oil...and as well as any other 50 weight. Hence, I will not vouch for the group III 5-30 or 10-30 grades. My car seemed to prefer the Syntec 5-50 over M-1 15-50 although I do think there was a lot more shearing going on. I think there are a couple Group III (regular U.S.)Syntec UOA's posted...
 
Messages
34,044
Location
Southern NJ
I personally havn't tested the two, but if the science written about them is correct, it's relatively simple. PAO's are better for the long run. Why do you think Amsoil uses PAO's and recommends long drain intervals? Take their group III's, they are only rated for 7,500 miles. Amsoil/Mobil use the same approach and use a high quality base oil. By the time you add the additive chemistry to a group III, you might as well use the PAO, as it was explained in another thread. You can buy great oils in groups II and III with good chemistry such as Pennzoil and Schaeffer's, and get great results with them up to a certain interval. But for the long run, your better off with a PAO base.
 

GSV

Messages
696
Location
Utah
quote:
Has ANYBODY!?, Run GIII oil through multiple extended drain intervals, then done UOAs? Has ANYBODY!? done a legitimate, comparitive cold pour test at a COLD temp, IE -30 C (- 22 F)or colder... Can ANYBODY!? tell exactly what the composition is of Brand X synthetic oil? (IE...QS, what the heck IS it?...or GC, etc.) Maybe somebody could make an up to date list? IMO, too much bashing ( I am as guilty as anyone!); time for some testing...
To quote one of the guys I work with "Why don't you do it?". [Big Grin] geeeman is right we need some more Group III UOAs. I've promised to post one on Chevron Supreme Synthetic 10w-30 in about 6 months. Anybody else ready to risk catastrophic engine failure after running this wretched stuff around the block a time or two? [LOL!] [Cheers!] [Patriot]
 
Messages
140
Location
New York City, NY
RayH, great point. The GIII 5w20's are doing great, and thats with a thin oil in an engine originally designed for 30 weights! Plus they have a great price. [Off Topic!] BTW, I love how you spelt the location! HAHAHA its so funny! [LOL!] At first I was wondering the location but then I sounded it out, lol. AH-NOLD thinks he is the good guy in this Total Recall, he thinks he is Douglas Quaid, but he is also Hauser Brubaker (his bad alter ago in Total Rekall, LOL).
 
Messages
679
Location
Daytona Beach
OK, I'll volunteer to do some testing for this board. Here is what I've got. I have a three chambered cloud point tester that will chill three glass cylinders down to about -30 F. The cylinders are typically 1" in diameter and about 3" tall and have a line about halfway up. When filled to the line, they hold about 3 oz. of liquid. Tell me what temp you would like to see and I'll relate the test verbally as well as possible. Give me a place to post pictures, and I'll do that. Just tell me the parameters for the test. I'll suggest this: Fill the bottles to the line, taking care not to introduce water in any way. Chill the samples to say -20 for 5 min. Remove bottles from tester and lay them on their side on a level surface for say 10 sec and take a photo. If an oil does better than I expect, go -25 then -30. I have some GC 0-30, some Penz 10 - 30, some Chev Sup 10 - 30, some Mobil DC(not blend) 10-30, some delo 400 15 - 40, and maybe a few more. I even have some ORIGINAL Mobil1 5W-20 from the '80s or early '90s marked SF, SG/CC, CD and an unopened quart of Valvoline 20W - 50 4 cycle motorcycle oil marked SC, SD, SE. Tell me how you would like to see the testing done and what you think would be beneficial for the board to see. I will also accept Amsoil samples for testing, but do not have any in my "collection".
 
Messages
4,478
Location
Southern California
What I can't figure out is why someone thought it was necessary to open another thread on an existing topic. [Wink] Much is said about PAO's alleged cold flow and cranking superiority. I can accept that the base stocks do show marked differences, but why are Group III finished oils held in disdain because pour point depressants are part of their additive package? No one pours raw base stock into their sump. Chevron stated in a white paper, "The Synthetic Nature of Group III Base Oils" that, "... it is entirely possible with modern Group III manufacturing technology to produce base oils of even lower pour point, although this is not currently common in the industry precisely because there is very little need for pour performance below -50C." On the other side of the coin, Noack volatilty and oxidation stability ratings of Group IIIs are very close to that of PAOs from charts in that same study. As to the confident assertion that PAOs are inherently better suited to extended drain intervals than Group IIIs, regardless how much some want to believe that, we don't know that. It's hearsay based on competitive advertising or spokesperson quotes. That's why we need more UOAs on Group IIIs. That would be supportable, controlled test evidence from a disinterested third party to either vindicate the anti-Group III crowd, or it might just vindicate Group IIIs.
 
Messages
3,216
Location
BC, Canada
I have some aeroshell 4.1 hydraulic fluid that I use in snowmobile suspensions you can chill until your hearts content. When you get the temperature down to -80F, pour some on your hand. Cold eh? Now do you want to go outside and drive around for an hour in that weather or stay inside? Extremely low pour points in fluids have their uses, but what are they in personal terra firma transport vehicles? [ October 31, 2003, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]
 
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