German Castrol Pumpability Poor GM6094M

[Fallguy]

Have been doing a ton of studying and really want to us GC 0w30. Have learned why a 0w should not scare one etc.

Here is what keeps me from pulling the trigger on GC.

Have found that per GM's tougher 6094M specs on pumpability (MRV) for a 5 weight should be no more than 40,000cP(-35C) and no more than 30,000(-40C) for a 0 weight.

GS is 60,000 at -40c. Anyone have a clue what the cP would be at -35c

If I cant match the GM spec (40,000cp -35c) of a 5w on this GS 0w it makes me nervous to use.

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf

Sorry if this is a rookie question have overlooked something.

Looked at tons of UOA's and seams like Edge, Penzoil & Royal Purple shear out of grade most ever time. Currently leaning towards Valvoline Synpower, seams to stay in grade better but with lower TBN will have to change earlier a bit.

 

[synthetic_crazy]

What kind of vehicle are you considering using GC in? What are your intentions as far as oil change intervals go?

By the way,

to BITOG!

 

[tinmanSC]

What kinda car/engine/mileage are we talking about here?

And

 

[Fallguy]

New 2010 GM 3.5L car(4k miles)

Thanks for the Welcome fireworks !

 

[Audi Junkie]

GC is a thick oil and the lowest pumpability doesn't really matter in real world.

 

[hate2work]

I would not use GC in the wintertime in Iowa. I tried running it in my Tacoma last Winter and it definitely was sluggish until it warmed up, and I'm talking maybe down to 20 degrees F.

What car, year, mileage?

 

[Fallguy]

2010 Impala 3.5l 4k mi

 

[rpn453]

From the spec sheet in the link you provided, the viscosity of Syntec 0W-30 at -35C is 6200 cP.

This will be my first winter using it in my own car. I have used it in other vehicles I service. No complaints, but most just use 5W-30 here.

 

[Fallguy]

You are on the wrong line, that is the cranking number.

The pumpability (also know as mrv elsewhere)is in the fifth block up from the bottom (60,000), there chart is poorly designed.

Thanks

 

[rpn453]

Yes, the chart is poorly laid out. The viscosity numbers provided for the 0W-30 are 6200 cP @ -35C and 60,000 cP @ -40C. The 5W-30's are 6600 cP @ -30C and 40,000 cP @ -35C. All those numbers are normal for their respective grades.

The GC will be thinner or as thin as any 5W-30 in colder temperatures. A very good oil, but I'd probably avoid it during warranty if it's not meeting certain GM specifications, even if it exceeds the actual performance requirements.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Wait. Castrol? All they do is list the pumping limits for the respective grades as their own specs!

...and people call viscosity calculators like Widman's unreliable.

I would suggest it as a better tool for judging winter performance....

http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html


If you want a thin winter oil, 5w-30 Pennzoil Platinum is much thinner, thinner even than Mobil 1 0w-30 used to be.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Wait. Castrol? All they do is list the pumping limits for the respective grades as their own specs!

...and people call viscosity calculators like Widman's unreliable.

I would suggest it as a better tool for judging winter performance....

http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html


If you want a thin winter oil, 5w-30 Pennzoil Platinum is much thinner, thinner even than Mobil 1 0w-30 used to be.


I guess that's why the numbers looked so 'normal' to me. It really doesn't matter beyond the fact that they meet the specs. Or do they?

According to that calculator, GC is thinner than PP 5W-30 below -28C, and the differences are practically insignificant below operating temperature. It also indicates that GC does not actually meet the 0W spec. Do you believe that to be true?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: rpn453
According to that calculator, GC is thinner than PP 5W-30 below -28C, and the differences are practically insignificant below operating temperature. It also indicates that GC does not actually meet the 0W spec. Do you believe that to be true?


Have you tried GC yet in our Saskatchewan winters? If so, what has your experience been like? I'm going to give it a shot this winter in my 1991 Audi 200 Turbo. It doesn't spend extensive time sitting in the cold. It's normally stored in a heated garage. If it does get to -40 C (or anywhere near that) and is outside for any period, there is a heater built into the oil pan that I can plug in.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Well, the closer up to zero you go more accurate the calc is, but it should show generally that PP is thinner at all temps. At -30c, all bets are off. PP should still be thinner though.

 

[Fallguy]

" I guess that's why the numbers looked so 'normal' to me. It really doesn't matter beyond the fact that they meet the specs. Or do they? "



GC may stay under the the conventional high limit marks for 0w but definitely goes over the GM 6094M cap on even a 5w but GM does have a lower max limit mark.

I was in love with this oil but can not get past this. Figure GM had a good reason to have lower limit numbers on pumpability (mrv "pumping" cP).

Regards.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I don't see a problem. GC is thick oil and you always have trade offs. If I wanted the best in cold, I'd look at a different grade, like 0w-20.

 

[Fallguy]

Just wanted GC to meet the GM spec (6094M) as was gong to go for it after much study then found out its 0W does not even meed GM's 5w spec.

Will stay with 30 grad on the upper side no matter what as engine spends most of life at operational temps and was designed for no lower than 30 grade.

Regards

 

[addyguy]

That is NOT the actual value that GC meets.

Castrol is very vague on their PSD's, so they are just showing the limit the oil comes under.

I don't doubt GC's pumpimg values are actually quite low.

 

[Fallguy]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
That is NOT the actual value that GC meets.

Castrol is very vague on their PSD's, so they are just showing the limit the oil comes under.

I don't doubt GC's pumpimg values are actually quite low.


Anyone know where I can find the cst for 40C so I can run the calculator link above. GC only provides the 100c cst

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf

http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html

 

[Craig in Canada]

IMO GC is *first* designed to me the high HTHS requirements of ACEA A3, BMW LL-01 and the other Euro certifications it is designed for. It's a true feat that it also happens to perform as a 0W and retain excellent extreme cold behaviours.

Comparing it against thinner, low HTHS competitors and finding out that it is sometimes thicker should come as a surprise to no one.

If you don't require the hot operating properties of GC for your engine (or desire them for smoothness or whatever) then feel free to look at other oils. GC isn't the optimum oil for every engine on the road.

I have an engine which requires its hot properties, and I have not a worry in the world about its cold properties because they're the best of all of the ACEA A3/BMW LL-01 competition.