German Castrol: Believe the hype ??

[Eiron]

Recently, a lot of fuss has been made over this oil, with most of the UOAs being run in Honda Civics. I was curious how Civics fared in general, so I decided to do a little “research” into the analysis results we have at our disposal. Since all the Civic German Castrol UOAs I could find only go back about 10 weeks, I decided to only view the other UOAs that far back as well (the exception being Redline, which was about 12 weeks out). Here’s what I came up with:

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Oil            GC    GC    GC   N/A  M1#1  M1#2    Ex    RL
Miles        3300  5279  5500  4500  3593  4886  5000  3100
Aluminum        1     2     3     3     3     5     4     4
Chromium        0     1     1     0     1     0     0     1
Iron            9     7    14     3     8     2     8     5
Copper          2     3     3     5     3     5     5     4
Lead            2     1     5     0     7     0     1     9
Tin             1     0     0     1     0     0     0     1
Molybdenum     89     8    15    52    61     -   230     -
Manganese       -     0   149     0     0     -     0     -
Potassium       4     0     0     0     0     0     0    20
Boron           -    15    16     0   122     -    50     0
Silicon        10    13    11    11     4    15    11    11
Sodium          7    11     2     3    10    11     4    22
Calcium         -  3402  3003  1950  2660     -  2254     -
Magnesium       -   113   129    15    61     -     6     -
Phosphorus      -   836   781   929   758     -   842     -
Zinc          889   983   998  1041   864     -   960  1034
Viscosity       -  11.0  11.5   9.3  10.9  13.0   7.2   7.6

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For reference, the other oils are: N/A = an unknown dino 5W-30 M1#1 = Mobil 1 10W-30 M1#2 = Mobil 1 5W-30 Ex = Exxon 5W-20 RL = RedLine 5W-20 Obviously, the GC is a good product. But I guess I don’t understand why it’s considered to be any more than that. Can anyone explain it for me?

 

[pscholte]

Eiron, For me, the reason it is a big deal is two-fold, one "technical/economic," one "emotional." The technical reason is that I believe this is a primarily ester based oil and so, for the price we are getting it, what a deal...The second reason, the emotional one, is that it is from Europe and it takes me back to my days living in Europe...driving the autobahn...touring the Porsche factory...enjoying the European culture... One person's perspective...hope it helps.

 

[buster]

It's new and could be another alternative to Mobil 1. M1 is on the thin side so this oil being a bit thicker would satisfy those who need a heavier 30wt oil. Its not better then the other based on the numbers I see above.

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

I dont think you should compare all the Civics together, I think my civic makes up a good portion of the UOA's and there are several different engines in the Honda Civic lineup nowadays. I've broken my wear data down into ppms/1000 miles and GC has registered the lowest wear numbers to date on my civic engine, the wear numbers have been cut down at least 50% on that basis. Although I am testing the Mobil1 5w-30 at the present time, so I am waiting to see how that oil compares to my GC run before I make a final decision on oils. Personally I've always been a supporter of Castrol GTX and I was disappointed to hear how their Castrol Syntec oil wasnt all that great in some of the tests we've seen. So its nice to have a Castrol synthetic oil that actually works well like the old days. I think the price is very good as well, seems like a great oil for the money.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi, pscholte - I agree with you I lived in Europe for a number of years too. AHHHHHHHH - the DB Museum in Stuttgart, great beer( better than XXXX or FOSTERS ), good food, excellent wines. Or USAF jets buzzing cars at 200km'h on deserted Autobahn - great stuff! This place is beautiful and relaxed - but sadly a **** of a long way from Europe As for oils - well we must never forget I suppose that the grandfather of most synthetics was born between 1930 and 1945 in Germany! Regards

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Obviously, the GC is a good product. But I guess I don’t understand why it’s considered to be any more than that. Can anyone explain it for me?

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A lot of the excitement on here is simply because it's something new for us oil geeks to get all excited about!

 

[pscholte]

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Originally posted by Doug Hillary: Hi, pscholte - I agree with you I lived in Europe for a number of years too. AHHHHHHHH - the DB Museum in Stuttgart, great beer( better than XXXX or FOSTERS ), good food, excellent wines. Or USAF jets buzzing cars at 200km'h on deserted Autobahn - great stuff! This place is beautiful and relaxed - but sadly a **** of a long way from Europe As for oils - well we must never forget I suppose that the grandfather of most synthetics was born between 1930 and 1945 in Germany! Regards

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I suspect that Oz is, in many ways, like being in Europe...except hotter and "beachier." I've been to South Africa, and I figure that, while cultural differences certainly separate SA and Oz, in terms of climate and European cultural influences, there are similiarities. I am sure Oz is a great place to live! And to top it all off, you get Castrol Formula RS 0W40! [ September 10, 2003, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]

 

[pscholte]

Eiron, To add to your data points, please see my post in the UOA section doing an apples to apples comparison BTW a Toyota Sienna (kiko's) using GC and another using M1 (very similar miles on engines and oil). The GC did very well in the head to head "challenge." [ September 10, 2003, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]

 

[Steve S]

It would seem a better comparison would be testing oils in the same engines using 2 changes to stabilizing the oil anaylsis numbers. Am I wrong in stating there is not a whole lot of difference between the numbers as they are different cars and how they may be driven? I remember a few awesome Chevron supreme posts but then it was a different car.

 

[Patman]

Another thing to remember is that VOAs on this oil show 4-9ppm of iron, so those UOAs have higher iron in them than the actual wear on the engine would be. So this in turn makes the oil even more impressive than it looks at a quick glance. Idrinkmotoroil did a VOA which showed 9ppm of iron, then his UOA also showed 9ppm of iron, therefore the UOA would've actually been 0ppm! Hopefully the newest batches of GC end up with 0ppm of iron right from the start. I'm going to do a VOA soon on the batch that is in my car right now, which is also the batch which is very common up here right now, so I figure it's the newest batch: M030426B T/W1240607

 

[Eiron]

OK, but other than Paul's "emotional" explanation, I don't see why anyone would drive 160 miles to find this oil, or stock up with 20 gallons of it before knowing whether or not it works for them. pscholte, I'm not sure your first reason is cause for such over-excitement, viewing these other reports. As for your second reason, I completely understand what you're saying. I've also got a certain "fondness" for Europe, & although I've never lived there for an extended period of time, I have accumulated over four months there while on vacations. I'm always glad to return to the US, but at the same time I always miss the eccentricities I discover when I'm over there. Perhaps that's even part of why I like M1 0W-40 so much. But would I exert so much time, money & energy trying to get it? I think not. Yes, I know there are other GC UOAs available, but the Civics present the largest "family" of comparisons all being run in the same time-frame. That helps to eliminate engine design differences & seasonal differences. I'm not sure any of the other GC UOAs fit both considerations. Just so you know, there were other excellent Civic reports for both Castrol GTX 5W-30 & Havoline syn 10W-30 (Fe=2,3 Cu=2,2 Pb=1,1), but I didn't include them 'cuz they didn't fit the time-frame of the GC UOAs. buster, I agree, alternatives create ever-better products for us! As you've pointed out, perhaps that's why Mobil has been tweaking their formula. Idrinkmotoroil, The reason I'm comparing all the Civics is because that's what I've seen being claimed as the basis for all the "miracle oil" hype. Your UOAs only comprised one GC report & the RL report, so I don't think you're car's throwing off the numbers. I was also a dyed-in-the-wool Castrol fanatic. For 20 years! But their whole "synthetic" lawsuit fiasco really went against my beliefs of how a company should do business. I don't want to say, "I'll never use Castrol again," but I will say that I'll choose another product for now. Steve S, Yes, I agree, the method you suggest would be best. None of the GC reports have been from the same Civic, yet they're viewed as all providing the same definitive conclusion regarding the abilities of GC. Why?? I'm not intimately familiar with Civics, but the example you give regarding the Chevron Supreme is why I didn't include other makes & models. Patman, Yes, I realize that the few VOAs indicate some starting points above zero. The problem is, we don't have "actual use" VOAs for all of the oils. So what do we do? IMO, we either: A) Use only UOA results for all of the oils, or B) Discount all of the oils by the same amount. Yes, I know it's not a very satisfactory answer. I simply didn't feel it was "fair" to discount some of the oils without knowing the same information about all of them. Do we subtract 9ppm Fe from the GC that UOA'd with 7ppm? What does that say for the lab's margin of error? Besides the non-zero starting point, we'd then have add/subtract that margin of error for all the results. I guess I'm not sure how else to propose "fairness" with so much missing data. __________ As I said, the GC looks like good stuff. I'm just in the dark as to why there's such a feeding frenzy over it when other, less obscure examples appear to perform equally well. If you're running side-by-side comparisons in your own vehicle, for the same number of miles, using the same filters, with the same engine health/condition, during the same seasonal conditions, driving as close to the same way as possible, & you like the way GC works compared to whatever else you've tried, then I think that's a valid decision. But I still haven't heard any tangible reasons (other than pure emotion) as to why this oil should be considered head-&-shoulders above all others. So ... what else can you tell me? Or do I have to start referring to this stuff as "Emotional Castrol"?

 

[pscholte]

EMOTIONAL Eiron, what ARE you talking about? You are, in fact, being emminently logical, which of course, is a good thing; but in my trade, the Space business, I am constantly surrounded by "Mr Spock's." That's OK (for them), but it isn't where I am coming from. So it is very satisfying to me to find a product that performs well and yet has a great emotional appeal, too. (Trust me, if it performed terribly, the infatuation would quickly fade.)

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Eiron: So ... what else can you tell me? Or do I have to start referring to this stuff as "Emotional Castrol"?

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We also like it cuz it's green and smells like gummibears!

 

[pscholte]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:

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Originally posted by Eiron: So ... what else can you tell me? Or do I have to start referring to this stuff as "Emotional Castrol"?

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We also like it cuz it's green and smells like gummibears!

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Pat, How on earth did I ever forget those two critical parts to this puzzle in my little diatribe above?

 

[Patman]

Old age?

 

[tenderloin]

"Or do I have to start referring to this stuff as" You can call it anything you want. We know that it is a very good oil. For the price it seems to be a good value. Anyway, what's wrong with trying something new? It is not like a made in Germany oil shows up at your local Autozone for under $5 a qt. In fact, Autozone still is running the buy 5 qt get one qt free! Loading up baby! If we did not try other oils, we would all be driving 30W oil, mfg. by one company. Nothing wrong with adding a little fun to this either. Could it be your crankiness is due to you having trouble getting some? Besides, I like the color......

 

[pscholte]

Patman, Now that wasn't kind...especially from a member of the "Brotherhood of the Green." PS Eiron, seems like we have members of The Green (as a minimum) in South Carolina, LA, Canada and Southern Colorado...my friend, I do believe you are surrounded! [ September 11, 2003, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]

 

[Eiron]

Oh, that's just great!! Now I can't decide between "EC" (Emotional Castrol) & "GC" (Gümmi Castrol) Speaking of which, I just bought some really cool gümmi teeth for me & the kids to enjoy. Had to pass on the gumball eyes & gümmi vermin, though ... pscholte, Hey, you got me all wrong! I accept your emotional reason as a valid one. I also agree that it does very well in the area of engine protection. Didn't I say so in both posts? And yes, perhaps I am looking over my shoulder a little more these days. As long as my measly 6 gallons of M1 0W-40 doesn't "magically" get replaced with EC/GC, I'll just chalk it up to the usual amount of paranoia I harbor. tenderloin, I haven't said it's anything other than a fine oil. In fact, I've now said it is a fine oil 4 times! It's just that, in my opinion, the hype doesn't match the performance. Heck, it's not even outperforming an unknown, bulk-supply dino 5W-30. Shouldn't we be chasing down that mystery oil? With only one unknown outlet, that's got to be the greatest oil ever!! I also agree that we should be trying different oils. I've never said we shouldn't, right? (You've never heard me say, "All EC/GC users should quit fooling around & start adding dissolved gümmibears to Mobil's 0W-30," have you?) I'm just trying to get an explanation as to why all the fanatical devotion to the Everlasting Church of the Holy Green Elixir of Perpetual Engine Salvation ... (Look! Even my smiley is turning green!! A-a-a-i-i-i-e-e-e !!! (P.S., those with screen names suggesting either, A) city sections devoted to vice, or B) soft, sensitive, wiggly bits should not question the conjugal relations of others.) (If you know what mean ... )

 

[quadrun1]

Googlism.com... "Takes all the effort out of coming up with an opinion" - B3TA.com

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castrol slx is the best castrol slx is the oil castrol slx is in fact 0w castrol slx is better

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[ September 11, 2003, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: quadrun1 ]

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by pscholte: Patman, Now that wasn't kind...especially from a member of the "Brotherhood of the Green."

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I'm sorry, I promise no more old jokes. Especially since I act like an old guy sometime too, eating dinner at 4:30 on the weekends, and taking naps in the afternoon.