German and Porsche are sore loosers !

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When did German started a battery electrical vehicle ? BMW started more than 20-25 years ago with standard lead acid batteries, how did it perform in market place ? A total failure, no model sold more than few hundreds copies.

The current battery vehicles seem to be a success, more and more traditional car manufactures are designing/engineering various vehicles running with batteries only, along with various hybrid and plugin hybrid. Mainly because Tesla pioneered the current battery vehicles with Li-on batteries.

Now, Porsche is badmouthing Tesla, they didn't even have a prototype yet but proclaim their battery Mission-E will be better than Model S and said "Model S is a facade".

Other than cheating and copying what did German engineers are capable of ? If you are copying others then shut-up and just copying, the more you brag about non existence product (from copying Model S) the more inadequate you are showing.

Without Tesla could any German engineer think of design/engineer a battery powered vehicle that capable of more than 200 miles between charges ?

Quote:
Porsche Engineer Reportedly Calls Tesla's Ludicrous Mode a "Facade"


Quote:
In case you weren't aware that Porsche aimed its upcoming all-electric Mission E sedan squarely at the Tesla Model S, a Porsche engineer went ahead and clarified that. In fact, the engineer thoroughly trashed Tesla while loudly proclaiming that the Mission E will be a game-changer in the world of electric cars.

The engineer then goes on to take some very pointed shots at the Tesla Model S, specifically its ultra-quick Ludicrous Mode.

"The thing about [Tesla's] Ludicrous mode is that it's a façade," the engineer said. "Two launches saps the whole battery. That won't be the case with the Mission E. You'll be able to run it hard, over and over; the battery will not overheat, the power control module will not overheat, and the seats will not suck."


Quote:
Yes, anonymous Porsche engineer, but tell us how you really feel about the Tesla Model S.

Of course, a Porsche employee isn't going to have the nicest things to say about a company its trying to compete directly with copy from, but this engineer is especially bold. They're also not entirely wrong, since Ludicrous Mode is more of a party trick than an all-out performance feature. Porsche makes a big deal of the durability of its performance cars.


Quote:
But let's play devils advocate here: Maybe the Porsche engineer is missing the point entirely. Tesla offers performance features like Ludicrous Mode because it can (and because it's presumably profitable), but making high-end performance cars isn't its endgame. With the Model 3, Tesla aims to move downmarket, where Porsche has no such aspirations.

Yes, the Mission E could very well be a better performance car than the Model S, but will Tesla care when the Porsche hits the road in 2020? Who knows, but we're excited to see what Porsche comes up with in any case.


Note: Tesla had model S on sale since 2013, Porsche took 7 years to copying from Tesla to produce Mission E, it will be available in 2020. And it will not be able to do sub-3 seconds 0-60, Model S P90D is capable of 2.8 seconds more than a year now.


http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car...dicrous-facade/
 
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Tesla did the hard work. They proved that the electric car was something that rich people would pay for even if the total package was a sub-par catfish-faced jellybean.

Now the big boys will snuff them out. Musk made everything open-source; we'll soon see whether that pays off or if he should have held onto some rights to sell.
 
If more of the big players get serious and the government continues with ever stricter legislation the market will change. Government incentives for rich people and expensive cars will not carry the market. The US government may try to pick a winner like they've done with solar energy but it won't last long.

The real problem is that the gas powered small car is a hard act to follow with something better.
 
Can you clarify on the claim that Porsche is copying Tesla? Producing a car to compete in the same segment isn't copying, so I'm curious as to what constitutes that claim here.
 
Not sure how much of a loser the people at Porsche are.

They make more profit per vehicle than any other car company on the planet.
Sales are up 6.3% over last year.
Most Porsche customers add the equivalent cost of a nice mid size sedan just in options on their cars.

Tesla can stand to learn a few things about building cars from Porsche.

BC.
 
I've dissed Tesla before on this site, but let's give credit where it's due.
Tesla was first to market with a really useable electric car and Tesla has put its own money into an expanding quick charge network to make its cars useable for travel.
Tesla is also investing in an enormous battery factory to support its new entry that'll offer most of the range and performance of a Model S for a price that would be a reasonable step up for an Accord, Camry or Passat buyer.
A few people claim that the Model S is the best car ever offered while many have chosen it over competing big Benz and BMW models.
Porsche will be quite late to the party by 2020 and Porsche's only current lower end offering is the base VW designed SUV.
I think you're right in thinking that Porsche is talking smack.
Tesla may already be so well embedded in the higher end of the electric car market that Porsche will find its offering about as well accepted as its current four door is.
Porsche will also be in a position of having to compete with a really good car from Tesla, not a mediocre one.
Maybe Porsche can deliver on their big talk, but that remains to be seen.
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: Prune_Juice
At least its not a now-dead Fisker Karma.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/9/2857779...reports-testing


Not to be outdone by Fisker... but Edmunds previously had a Model S long term vehicle.

The main drive unit had to be replaced three times and the battery pack replaced once in 30,000 miles.


So Tesla build quality is sub-par?

I saw a BMW i8 yesterday. Cool car.
 
I'm not sure why Porsche should really care about Tesla. It's like complaining about a spec of dust. Porsche had ~225,000 sales in 2015. Tesla had ~50,000. Tesla is peanuts compared to Porsche and Porsche is a niche market peanut player in the total car sales. To compare Ford sells 10x as many as Porsche.

Bickering over minor market players is pitiful.
 
Porsche apparently does care. They would not otherwise be trash-talking Tesla.
Tesla may have only sold a bit more than 20% of the vehicles that Porsche did last year, but every Tesla sold was a high priced vehicle with no dealer margins involved.
Neither can be said for Porsche.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Porsche apparently does care. They would not otherwise be trash-talking Tesla.
Tesla may have only sold a bit more than 20% of the vehicles that Porsche did last year, but every Tesla sold was a high priced vehicle with no dealer margins involved.
Neither can be said for Porsche.


This anonymous engineer is not Porsche, doesn't speak for Porsche and we don't know if his opinion represents the companies viewpoint. This thread is a joke and tries to hype up Tesla.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Porsche apparently does care. They would not otherwise be trash-talking Tesla.
Tesla may have only sold a bit more than 20% of the vehicles that Porsche did last year, but every Tesla sold was a high priced vehicle with no dealer margins involved.
Neither can be said for Porsche.


Average sales price for Porsche (revenue/#of car sold) was around $107k. How about for Tesla?
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Porsche apparently does care. They would not otherwise be trash-talking Tesla.
Tesla may have only sold a bit more than 20% of the vehicles that Porsche did last year, but every Tesla sold was a high priced vehicle with no dealer margins involved.
Neither can be said for Porsche.


Anything goes in marketing tactics when you move into a newish sector. The Germans are a bit too far ahead in technical and legal terms to be interested in copying.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Porsche apparently does care. They would not otherwise be trash-talking Tesla.
Tesla may have only sold a bit more than 20% of the vehicles that Porsche did last year, but every Tesla sold was a high priced vehicle with no dealer margins involved.
Neither can be said for Porsche.


Average sales price for Porsche (revenue/#of car sold) was around $107k. How about for Tesla?


Not sure what you're saying here.
It should be obvious to anyone that the average selling price of Porsche badged vehicles isn't anything close to $107K.
Maybe you mean that if you divide the imaginary list prices by the number of models you'd come to 107K?
Otherwise, your post makes no sense at all.
 
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Porsche apparently does care. They would not otherwise be trash-talking Tesla.
Tesla may have only sold a bit more than 20% of the vehicles that Porsche did last year, but every Tesla sold was a high priced vehicle with no dealer margins involved.
Neither can be said for Porsche.


Anything goes in marketing tactics when you move into a newish sector. The Germans are a bit too far ahead in technical and legal terms to be interested in copying.



The Germans are well behind Tesla in this technical arena just as they are behind the Japanese and even Ford and GM in most others.
German vehicle reliability and durability has been below par for the past twenty years.
The German makers live more upon their heritage as well as the performance their lease customers enjoy for a few short years.
Own an old high-po Benz, BMW or even VAG product and you'll understand.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Porsche apparently does care. They would not otherwise be trash-talking Tesla.
Tesla may have only sold a bit more than 20% of the vehicles that Porsche did last year, but every Tesla sold was a high priced vehicle with no dealer margins involved.
Neither can be said for Porsche.


Average sales price for Porsche (revenue/#of car sold) was around $107k. How about for Tesla?


Not sure what you're saying here.
It should be obvious to anyone that the average selling price of Porsche badged vehicles isn't anything close to $107K.
Maybe you mean that if you divide the imaginary list prices by the number of models you'd come to 107K?
Otherwise, your post makes no sense at all.


Revenue for Porsche in 2015 was ~$24B. Total cars delivered was 225k.

Average sales price was $107k.

You can find the figures here:
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/annual-report/en.html
 
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Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Tesla did the hard work. They proved that the electric car was something that rich people would pay for even if the total package was a sub-par catfish-faced jellybean.

Now the big boys will snuff them out. Musk made everything open-source; we'll soon see whether that pays off or if he should have held onto some rights to sell.


Open source being a very mobile term. Try getting access to service manuals without proving residency in Massachusetts.
 
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