Gates timing belt not made to correct specs

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Just ran across something interesting and somewhat disturbing while I was changing my 05 Civic's timing belt. Last time I changed the belt in 2016, I used a Gates blue belt (their high performance one) and it has not given me any issues, but it was due to be changed. This time I decided to get an OEM Honda belt (which is made by Gates) since I had to go to the dealer to pick up some other parts anyways and I'm glad I did.

As I was comparing the new belt to the old belt, I noticed that the aftermarket Gates belt is actually significantly narrower than the OEM Gates belt. The difference isn't huge, but it's enough to easily see. Although the Gates belt didn't give me any issues, as critical as the timing belt is on interference engines, I think it's a bit disturbing that they didn't at least create a belt of the proper dimensions. If nothing else, this is a good reminder that an aftermarket part being made by the same manufacturer as the OEM part does NOT mean the part is the same. In some cases, that apparently doesn't even mean the part is the proper size.

I'd be interested to know if any of you have noticed obvious issues like this before with Gates or any other brands. Here's a few pictures of the differences in width.

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Terrifying? Perhaps. Honda calls out 7 years / 110k per T belt.
Seems like a decent interval to me. That few millimeters width won't matter.
For me terrifying was when I got a T belt for a 1751cc Accord & the CarQuest parts guy tried spooning off a 1488cc Civic belt on me.....
(the olde Accord belt had square/blocked teeth, the Civic 1/2 round) : l
I like Continental brand T belts, Never seen a failed one yet, also spin the sealed tensioner, if it sounds even slightly dry or spins like a skateboard wheel, buy the whole kit.
 
You didn't compare belts the first time ? There should be dimensions printed on the belt...they should be the same as the one you took off.
I don't remember if I compared nor do I remember what belt was on that engine last time. I have never seen dimensions printed on a timing belt.
 
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek :poop: :poop:

Aisin kit with the Mitsuboshi belt is the way to go (other than the dealer)

Email Gates and ask what they have to say about it
Actually Aisin made the OEM water pump that came on this engine but the new one I bought from Honda a few weeks ago is made by Yamada.

I considered buying an aftermarket Aisin pump instead of OEM since they made the original, but I decided to go OEM for piece of mind. This thread is yet another example of a manufacturer making their aftermarket parts to lower standards than their OEM grade parts and I didn't want to take a chance on such a critical part.

Good idea, I will email Gates tomorrow and post their response (if they bother to respond).
 
Apparently Gates didn't think their belt needed to be exacly the same width as the OEM Honda belt. How do you know the Honda OEM belt at the time the Gates belt was bought wasn't also the same width as the Honda belt back then? Maybe Honda changed the belt width since then. Lots of unknowns.
 
Just ran across something interesting and somewhat disturbing while I was changing my 05 Civic's timing belt. Last time I changed the belt in 2016, I used a Gates blue belt (their high performance one) and it has not given me any issues, but it was due to be changed. This time I decided to get an OEM Honda belt (which is made by Gates) since I had to go to the dealer to pick up some other parts anyways and I'm glad I did.

As I was comparing the new belt to the old belt, I noticed that the aftermarket Gates belt is actually significantly narrower than the OEM Gates belt. The difference isn't huge, but it's enough to easily see. Although the Gates belt didn't give me any issues, as critical as the timing belt is on interference engines, I think it's a bit disturbing that they didn't at least create a belt of the proper dimensions. If nothing else, this is a good reminder that an aftermarket part being made by the same manufacturer as the OEM part does NOT mean the part is the same. In some cases, that apparently doesn't even mean the part is the proper size.

I'd be interested to know if any of you have noticed obvious issues like this before with Gates or any other brands. Here's a few pictures of the differences in width.

View attachment 94175View attachment 94176View attachment 94177View attachment 94178
I wonder what Gates would have to say about this: can it be that the older, high performance, belt, was made of a different higher strength material, hence the difference in width over the OEM?

I do appreciate posts such as yours: I like getting into technical things, as much as I like holding manufacturers' accountable.
 
I wonder what Gates would have to say about this: can it be that the older, high performance, belt, was made of a different higher strength material, hence the difference in width over the OEM?

I do appreciate posts such as yours: I like getting into technical things, as much as I like holding manufacturers' accountable.
Good point, I thought about that too. But my thought is that belt was not cheap, it was by far the most expensive belt available for my application. Those belts now sell for $69 at Napa. For that kind of money, you'd think they could have at least made it to OEM dimensions. Also, even if the belt's strength is great, there are other concerns as well. For example, with so much extra clearance between the sides of the belt and the guides on the sprockets, could the extra room available for the belt to wander side to side be a problem? No idea, I didn't design the engine. I personally trust Honda's R&D more than Gates though.

I just emailed Gates to ask about this. If/when I get a response, I will post it here.
 
This is why I buy OEM when the price difference isn't too much.
I agree. That Gates belt actually cost more than OEM. I thought I was paying more to get a better part, but I ended up paying more to get something that isn't even the right size. Lesson learned.
 
we use gates on some of the machinery we build , i came across what appeared to be a meshing issue between the teethe of the belt and the teethe of the gear pully , it made noise every time it went around , laid it next to another one we had and could see the difference in the pitch of the teethe, called the guys in from gates , boy i never saw someone scratch there heads so hard
 
Not a width issue; someone on another forum I frequent got sideways because the printing on the back of an Aisin belt (that indicates the timing marks on the crank and cam sprokets) wore off in 50 miles. The OEM belt it replaced still had the marks.
 
The Gates RPM belt pictured is mainly meant for race only applications, so it makes sense it is slightly different.
That's true but before I bought it I emailed Gates to ask if it is okay to use on a daily driver and they assured me that it's fine and that its longevity will be at least as good as the OEM belt.

Especially in a racing application where aggressive cams and stiff valve springs are often used and the engine is revved above the stock redline, I'd definitely want the belt to be made to the proper specs especially for the price those belts sell for.

I see no benefit to making the belt narrower than stock other than cost savings, which shouldn't be so much of a factor for such an expensive and supposedly high end belt that they don't even make it to the proper dimensions. I suppose it's also possible that Gates just didn't care to make it to the proper specs or had some type of manufacturing defect that their quality control didn't catch, but either way this situation isn't looking good for Gates IMO.
 
The Gates RPM belt pictured is mainly meant for race only applications, so it makes sense it is slightly different.
That's true but before I bought it I emailed Gates to ask if it is okay to use on a daily driver and they assured me that it's fine and that its longevity will be at least as good as the OEM belt.
If it's a high performance "racing" belt, then why do you think it needs to be designed exactly like the OEM belt? Maybe the material is different and the width was reduced sightly for the intended racing application.

It worked and lasted for you just fine as Gates said it would, so seems you're worked up and focused on something that doesn't really matter.
 
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