Gasoline sans alcohol

J

Jarpin

Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
222
Location
TX
Hello guys,

I've been away from this forum for almost 10 years,
Instead following forums for my individual vehicles.

Lately, since the price of gas came down, I've been taking advantage of NO ethanol gas (90 octane) at Quiktrip gas stations in both my old 1999 Toyota (263k), and my 2001 Subaru (167k). Now granted, it comes at a hefty premium, which means it costs even more than premium gas per gallon.

BUT.....

Do you guys think that my really older engines could avoid costly fuel system problems in the future if I stuck with this grade gas even after fuel prices go back up again?
 
I think the only issue you could have is if you let the car sit for months at a time if it has E10 in it. You will get slightly better fuel economy with E0 gas vs E10 gas. Enough to offset the increased price? Probably not.
 
I'd say no in those cars. By that point (1999) cars were designed with ethanol in mind. You'll be spending at least a couple hundred bucks a year extra to run it, maybe more depending on cost and how much you drive.
For example... 20,000 miles a year / 20 mpg = 1,000 gallons of gas; an extra 50 cents a gallon would cost you $500 extra a year - not insignificant by any means, especially for little tangible benefit.
Me, I'd save the money, run the regular (QT is Top Tier and good gas), and just buy the non-ethanol stuff for small engines. That's what I do. If you had classics not designed for ethanol, that would make sense. But for a 20 year old Toyota? Run the cheap stuff and sleep well.
 
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Ok....thanks guys. That helps. I think I'll just save the cash and run a can of 44K once a year. Maybe I'll just switch to midgrade instead of no ethanol. Paying more than the cost of premium was bothering me in the back of my mind. I guess that's why corn farmer subsidies help the consumer at the pump too.
 
Originally Posted by Jarpin
Ok....thanks guys. That helps. I think I'll just save the cash and run a can of 44K once a year. Maybe I'll just switch to midgrade instead of no ethanol. Paying more than the cost of premium was bothering me in the back of my mind. I guess that's why corn farmer subsidies help the consumer at the pump too.


BITOG wisdom would be to use Techron, Gumout Regane or another product with PEA in it for best cleaning results, but I'm sure that 44k is a good option too (don't know if it has PEA in it).

Also, unless your owners' manuals recommend midgrade gas or your engines ping/knock, running it probably will serve to do nothing but lighten your wallet. YMMV of course, but odds are your car won't know a difference. Plus, regular has the advantage of being the freshest "flavor" of gas; I was at our Kwik Trip last night (different from your QT), and they said that they get a fuel truck every single night. (Regular every time, and other grades as needed.) If you feel you get some benefit from running a more expensive gas then why not, but for the vast majority of cars on the road that spec regular, that is exactly what they need. If they spec premium or midgrade, then that's probably what they need (though even then many people will run regular).
 
Ok, cool. So I'll save the no ethanol gas for the pressure washer and the lawnmower. Good knowledge base here. Thanks. Probably still a good idea to use the fuel stabilizer in the gas can, right?
 
I just installed my 3rd set of rubber fuel hoses in my 84 Cutlass in 13 years. The last set with fuel injection hose (even though my car is carbureted), supposed to be better hose and it still cracked. It would have been leaking if I'd left it much longer. Last time it did leak before I realized.

I'm on carburetor number 2 which is still working good except a bit of a weak accelerator pump, which is on the way.

It's always parked with e0 and stabilizer and only runs e10 when I'm daily driving it. A tank of gas never lasts longer than a couple weeks.

I can't afford to run premium e0 because of the price difference so I just have to keep fixing the damage caused by ethanol as it happens. I'm running only top tier hoping that reduces issues.
 
Originally Posted by Jarpin
Ok, cool. So I'll save the no ethanol gas for the pressure washer and the lawnmower. Good knowledge base here. Thanks. Probably still a good idea to use the fuel stabilizer in the gas can, right?


I run E10 in my lawn tractor, 2 stroke weed eater, and snow blower. Never "winterized" anything, just added some sta-bil and they've always fired up without a fuss. Never any issues with water or the ethanol separating.
 
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Jarpin
Ok, cool. So I'll save the no ethanol gas for the pressure washer and the lawnmower. Good knowledge base here. Thanks. Probably still a good idea to use the fuel stabilizer in the gas can, right?


I run E10 in my lawn tractor, 2 stroke weed eater, and snow blower. Never "winterized" anything, just added some sta-bil and they've always fired up without a fuss. Never any issues with water or the ethanol separating.


You should buy a lottery ticket.
 
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Jarpin
Ok, cool. So I'll save the no ethanol gas for the pressure washer and the lawnmower. Good knowledge base here. Thanks. Probably still a good idea to use the fuel stabilizer in the gas can, right?


I run E10 in my lawn tractor, 2 stroke weed eater, and snow blower. Never "winterized" anything, just added some sta-bil and they've always fired up without a fuss. Never any issues with water or the ethanol separating.


You should buy a lottery ticket.


My grandfather and my father never winterized anything either, that 15 year old craftsman lawn tractor is STILL going!
21.gif


Though I did run the weed eater out of fuel and let it sit this last winter... I hope that fires up.
 
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Jarpin
Ok, cool. So I'll save the no ethanol gas for the pressure washer and the lawnmower. Good knowledge base here. Thanks. Probably still a good idea to use the fuel stabilizer in the gas can, right?


I run E10 in my lawn tractor, 2 stroke weed eater, and snow blower. Never "winterized" anything, just added some sta-bil and they've always fired up without a fuss. Never any issues with water or the ethanol separating.


You should buy a lottery ticket.


My grandfather and my father never winterized anything either, that 15 year old craftsman lawn tractor is STILL going!
21.gif


Though I did run the weed eater out of fuel and let it sit this last winter... I hope that fires up.


My father in law ran e10 in his stuff up until last summer when I showed him the inside of the old carburetor on his nearly new lawnmower. It couldn't be saved, I had to order a new one for it. Last summer he had almost every one of his part time use stuff fail (a couple lawnmowers, a couple snowblowers and his motorcycle all had carb issues). I was able to clean out one lawnmower and the bike shop cleaned out his motorcycle carb.

He's not the only one either, it happens all the time. My ope has had a lot better track record than a lot of people so I'm not going to gamble with ethanol in the gas when it's easy enough to buy e0 for them. It just doesn't make any sense to do otherwise unless you have no problem buying new equipment.
 
I worked for Onan Corporation before Cummins bought it. We had all sorts of problems with alcohol gas blends - quick degradation in storage (even with stabilizer), corrosion of small engine fuel system parts, etc. With constant AFR fixed jetting, it creates artificially lean conditions and tends to burn exhaust valves as well.

It's corporate welfare at its finest. If you can find straight gas, use it. Be sure you add stabilizer at the pump whatever you use.
 
I worked for Onan Corporation before Cummins bought it. We had all sorts of problems with alcohol gas blends - quick degradation in storage (even with stabilizer), corrosion of small engine fuel system parts, etc. With constant AFR fixed jetting, it creates artificially lean conditions and tends to burn exhaust valves as well.

It's corporate welfare at its finest. If you can find straight gas, use it. Be sure you add stabilizer at the pump whatever you use.
 
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
I worked for Onan Corporation before Cummins bought it. We had all sorts of problems with alcohol gas blends - quick degradation in storage (even with stabilizer), corrosion of small engine fuel system parts, etc. With constant AFR fixed jetting, it creates artificially lean conditions and tends to burn exhaust valves as well.

The only conclusion one can draw from these types of posts is that some manufacturers use clearly inferior construction materials in their fuel systems. None of my old vehicles (even my 26 year-old BMW) have these issues, why don't small engine manufacturers use better materials?

It's not like E10 just appeared on the market in the past few years. There are numerous individuals like myself (and many others in large metropolitan areas) where we cannot purchase E0 at any station. Why don't small engine manufacturers help us out by acknowledging this and utilize appropriate materials in their engines?
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
I worked for Onan Corporation before Cummins bought it. We had all sorts of problems with alcohol gas blends - quick degradation in storage (even with stabilizer), corrosion of small engine fuel system parts, etc. With constant AFR fixed jetting, it creates artificially lean conditions and tends to burn exhaust valves as well.

The only conclusion one can draw from these types of posts is that some manufacturers use clearly inferior construction materials in their fuel systems. None of my old vehicles (even my 26 year-old BMW) have these issues, why don't small engine manufacturers use better materials?

It's not like E10 just appeared on the market in the past few years. There are numerous individuals like myself (and many others in large metropolitan areas) where we cannot purchase E0 at any station. Why don't small engine manufacturers help us out by acknowledging this and utilize appropriate materials in their engines?

I guess that's one of life's little mysteries. As with many things, it probably settles down to how much it would cost. Cars are expensive and different metals, seals, etc are going to be expensive. And there's probably no way that vented tanks are going away.

Still - some seem to do pretty well on E10. Kohler says it's OK and I haven't heard of many problems. But they're pretty expensive.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
I worked for Onan Corporation before Cummins bought it. We had all sorts of problems with alcohol gas blends - quick degradation in storage (even with stabilizer), corrosion of small engine fuel system parts, etc. With constant AFR fixed jetting, it creates artificially lean conditions and tends to burn exhaust valves as well.

The only conclusion one can draw from these types of posts is that some manufacturers use clearly inferior construction materials in their fuel systems. None of my old vehicles (even my 26 year-old BMW) have these issues, why don't small engine manufacturers use better materials?

It's not like E10 just appeared on the market in the past few years. There are numerous individuals like myself (and many others in large metropolitan areas) where we cannot purchase E0 at any station. Why don't small engine manufacturers help us out by acknowledging this and utilize appropriate materials in their engines?


My B&S snowblower I bought does say E10 is okay to run in it, seems like they're finally coming around. Even my older stuff has been totally fine with E10, despite saying not to use it or whatever. 99.999% of gas stations around here are E10 only, I've only found 1 that wasn't, and I'm certainly not paying 93 octane prices for 87.
 
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I cannot figure out why I cannot get ethanol free gas anywhere near me. I live in a city of a million people and there are only 2 stations within 50 miles of me that sell it....neither of them is anywhere near where I live/work/ever drive.

Especially since everyone I know thinks they know everything about cars :p
 
Originally Posted by Barkleymut
I cannot figure out why I cannot get ethanol free gas anywhere near me. I live in a city of a million people and there are only 2 stations within 50 miles of me that sell it....neither of them is anywhere near where I live/work/ever drive.

Because it appears your area has opted-in to require RFG:

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/special/pdf/rfg2.pdf

Quote
Any area that is currently or previously designated in nonattainment for ozone under the national
one-hour ozone standard (since enactment of the 1990 amendments to the Clean Air Act on
February 15, 1990) may be included in the RFG program at the request of the Governor of the
State in which the area is located. EPA is to require the sale of RFG in the "opt-in" areas within 1
year after an application is received. Although EPA has discretion to establish the effective date
for the sale of RFG in these areas, EPA does not have discretion to deny a Governor's request.

Here in southeastern Wisconsin we are not opted-in but are mandated by the EPA to use RFG.
 
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