Gasohol, Alcohol and Other Solutions
- Thread starter XB70
- Start date
- Status
I believe the reason they call alcohols (e.g., ethanol or methanol) "oxygenates" is that they contain oxygen in a chain of carbon and hydrogen atoms. The oxygenates blended into gasoline these days are alcohols or ethers.
Ethanol is the most commonly used alcohol oxygenate; methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether, or MTBE, is the most commonly used ether oxygenate.
When you add ethanol to gasoline and run it in a car designed for gasoline, you get:
a leaner mixture
lower power output
higher octane
a decrease in some pollutants (carbon dioxide) and an increase in others (nitrogen oxide)
more corrosion in the fuel system
It's cheaper to use gasoline made from oil or coal then to use ethanol. If it were not subsidized it wouldn't be used at all.
In addition ethanol production competes with food production, so I'm not sure ethanol isn't a zero sum game.
.
Ethanol is the most commonly used alcohol oxygenate; methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether, or MTBE, is the most commonly used ether oxygenate.
When you add ethanol to gasoline and run it in a car designed for gasoline, you get:
a leaner mixture
lower power output
higher octane
a decrease in some pollutants (carbon dioxide) and an increase in others (nitrogen oxide)
more corrosion in the fuel system
It's cheaper to use gasoline made from oil or coal then to use ethanol. If it were not subsidized it wouldn't be used at all.
In addition ethanol production competes with food production, so I'm not sure ethanol isn't a zero sum game.
.
It is getting harder to find the non-ethanol here in MN. I did use the 10% ethanaol in my boat and motorcycle last year and had no problems. I feel that i will not be able to get the non-ethanol stuff soon, so i want to know i should have no problems. But i will choose the non-oxygenated fuel if i have a choice.
They can make the stuff much cheaper in Brazil, so it might not need to be forced upon us. Fifty cents/gallon is a pretty good deal for E100. Even if it has only 70% the energy content of gasoline, you still end up ahead economically.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/07/when_is_ethanol.html
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/07/when_is_ethanol.html
There are a lot reasons that ethanol can be made cheaply in Brazil.
The Brazilian government spent decades subsidizing an ethanol delivery system so there was a pump in every gas station.
Brazil makes its ethanol from sugar cane. US ethanol is made from corn, which has a lower yield. Brazil has a frost-free growing season as well, which means the yield of ethanol per acre of sugar cane is higher.
Brazil use the sugar cane husks as a boiler fuel, with surplus electricity going into the national grid, while the US uses gas and oil as boiler fuels.
Brazil has cheap land and labor costs.
And Brazil has no alternate fuels. The US has a vast supply of coal and oil shales.
.
The Brazilian government spent decades subsidizing an ethanol delivery system so there was a pump in every gas station.
Brazil makes its ethanol from sugar cane. US ethanol is made from corn, which has a lower yield. Brazil has a frost-free growing season as well, which means the yield of ethanol per acre of sugar cane is higher.
Brazil use the sugar cane husks as a boiler fuel, with surplus electricity going into the national grid, while the US uses gas and oil as boiler fuels.
Brazil has cheap land and labor costs.
And Brazil has no alternate fuels. The US has a vast supply of coal and oil shales.
.
We can grow good apples, and Brazil can grow cheap ethanol. Things should be done where they work the best. Why are people wasting precious resources building ethanol facilities in Canada and the US?
Yes, alcohol does a great job of cleaning off all traces of oil from the cylinder walls. I destroyed a lawnmower engine in three hours that way, running it on ethanol/water mix. I should have cut off some of the cooling air supply, but didn't know better. The exhaust smelled really clean, though.
I run E85 fuel in my flex fuel truck. I do so only to save a some money since I drive between 600 and 900 miles a week. My fuel mileage is about 2 mpg less but the price saves me about $3.00 or more each tank full. My truck is now seeing 70,000 trouble free miles running on this stuff. No oil consumption. No startng problems and the truck sits outside 24/7.Just a couple more thousand miles and I will be sending the oil into the lab so I can see how things are looking.
Right now the price has been creaping up on E85. If the price in not at least 40 cents less than Reg. grade gas than it is not worth using as it will not be saving me any money.
I found this in my searches.This is interesting.
Oil Industry vs. Ethanol Tax Incentives Summed Over Years Adjusted to 2000 dollars
( in Million Dollars)
PETROLEUM
Petroleum Tax Incentives 1968-2000
Excess of percentage over cost depletion...................$81,679-$82,085
Expensing of exploration and development costs.............$42,855-$54,580
Petroleum Tax Incentives 1980-2000
Alternative nonconventional fuel production credit .........$8,411-$10,542
Expensing of tertiary injectants ..........................$330
Petroleum Tax Incentives 1988-2000
Oil and Gas exception from passive loss limitation ............$1,065
Petroleum Tax Incentives 1994-2000
Credit for enhanced oil recovery costs ....................$482-$1,002
ETHANOL
Ethanol Tax Incentives 1979-2000
Partial exemption from the excise tax for alcohol fuels .....$7,523-$11,183
Ethanol Tax Incentives 1980-2000
Income tax credit for alcohol fuels .........................$198-$478
(Source: GAO/RCED-00-301R)
Right now the price has been creaping up on E85. If the price in not at least 40 cents less than Reg. grade gas than it is not worth using as it will not be saving me any money.
I found this in my searches.This is interesting.
Oil Industry vs. Ethanol Tax Incentives Summed Over Years Adjusted to 2000 dollars
( in Million Dollars)
PETROLEUM
Petroleum Tax Incentives 1968-2000
Excess of percentage over cost depletion...................$81,679-$82,085
Expensing of exploration and development costs.............$42,855-$54,580
Petroleum Tax Incentives 1980-2000
Alternative nonconventional fuel production credit .........$8,411-$10,542
Expensing of tertiary injectants ..........................$330
Petroleum Tax Incentives 1988-2000
Oil and Gas exception from passive loss limitation ............$1,065
Petroleum Tax Incentives 1994-2000
Credit for enhanced oil recovery costs ....................$482-$1,002
ETHANOL
Ethanol Tax Incentives 1979-2000
Partial exemption from the excise tax for alcohol fuels .....$7,523-$11,183
Ethanol Tax Incentives 1980-2000
Income tax credit for alcohol fuels .........................$198-$478
(Source: GAO/RCED-00-301R)
I think the fossil fuel companies take pretty good care of themselves money wise sure there is some going for developement and such but I doubt there is much going into production. This is besides the fact that this sort of stuff has to be burned to make the ethanol. The very most optomistic greeny authored ethanol propoganda I have seen puts ethanol at 37% more energy produced than used and the other side claims as much as 4 times more energy used than is gained. The truth undoubtedly lies in the middle somewhere.
Ethanol is a "feel good" measure sort of like gun control lets the ignorant masses believe they are doing something positive when in reality they are doing harm
.
As far as E100, you know how so many here like additives that add lubricity to fuel, well gas is a substantially better lubricant than alcohol, I have some experiance with race cars running both fuels and the alky ones don't last anywhere near as long even besides the corrosion problems and they burn like 2.5 times as much fuel in order to get some more power, not even 1.5 times the power. If I end up needing gas in an area with only 10% fuel no straight gas I put in just a few gallons, luckily the smallish town I am in I can still find real gas at a few of the stations.
Ethanol is a "feel good" measure sort of like gun control lets the ignorant masses believe they are doing something positive when in reality they are doing harm
As far as E100, you know how so many here like additives that add lubricity to fuel, well gas is a substantially better lubricant than alcohol, I have some experiance with race cars running both fuels and the alky ones don't last anywhere near as long even besides the corrosion problems and they burn like 2.5 times as much fuel in order to get some more power, not even 1.5 times the power. If I end up needing gas in an area with only 10% fuel no straight gas I put in just a few gallons, luckily the smallish town I am in I can still find real gas at a few of the stations.
- Status
Similar threads
