"Gas" Station of the future....

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Originally Posted By: Shannow
- For voltage control, the measurements are made at the transformers, and they are tapped up/down to ensure that the most remote house gets correct voltage...throw a bunch of rooftop generators in between the measuring point and the last house, and the last house experiences overvoltage...poor saps are blowing up fridges due to the actions of their neighbours.
It was only 2 summers ago I was routinely seeing north of 270V on two of the phases here. Appliances survived but we lost a lot of lighting. Generally could predict it. As a massive cloud bank rolled over the voltage would plummet and the transformers tapped up, then as it blew past the voltage would spike before they had a chance to tap back down. The grid does seem to have got a decent handle on it I. The last couple of years, but frequency is still all over the shop.
 
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The gas station of the future will be home produced electricity. People will be able to generate their own power at home very cheaply and charge up their cars.
Really ? Oz are about to press play on laws to limit rooftop production to 4KW to preserve the integrity of the distribution system, and limit exports. (*) a 4KW system would produce 32KWh in a day...not enough to charge your Tesla. (*) for those interested, there's some issues with rooftop solar. - Protection devices are set up to limit fault current, when they detect it on a radial feed...throwing 4KWxN houses after the measuring point means that the fault current is design plus 4N when /if it occurs. - For voltage control, the measurements are made at the transformers, and they are tapped up/down to ensure that the most remote house gets correct voltage...throw a bunch of rooftop generators in between the measuring point and the last house, and the last house experiences overvoltage...poor saps are blowing up fridges due to the actions of their neighbours.
Darn-there goes my thinking about putting solar panels on the roof of my garage to power up, say a Chevy Volt at night.... I still see nothing but a struggle just to have a massive amount of electric cars....
 

Nick1994

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My quick Googling says it costs $3.95 to charge a Tesla. Solar panels produce a lot more power than that.
 

Shannow

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Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My quick Googling says it costs $3.95 to charge a Tesla. Solar panels produce a lot more power than that.
Do they ? How much do YOU think a 4KW panel setup produces in the average 24 hour period ? As to cost...it's really cheap until enough people use it...road taxes will be applied to the EV meter when there's a critical mass.
 

Nick1994

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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My quick Googling says it costs $3.95 to charge a Tesla. Solar panels produce a lot more power than that.
Do they ? How much do YOU think a 4KW panel setup produces in the average 24 hour period ? As to cost...it's really cheap until enough people use it...road taxes will be applied to the EV meter when there's a critical mass.
I've got a coworker that went from a $300 a month summer electric bill to a $40 a month electric bill. Also a distant family member that has had near $0 electric bills.
 

Shannow

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Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I've got a coworker that went from a $300 a month summer electric bill to a $40 a month electric bill. Also a distant family member that has had near $0 electric bills.
So what's the ACTUAL metrics ? $s on bills aren't capacities. What's their installed capacity, and how much ACTUAL capacity are they generating... You can't counter my figures, and state that they generate more than I state without stating the actual quantities...not bills.
 

Nick1994

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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I've got a coworker that went from a $300 a month summer electric bill to a $40 a month electric bill. Also a distant family member that has had near $0 electric bills.
So what's the ACTUAL metrics ? $s on bills aren't capacities. What's their installed capacity, and how much ACTUAL capacity are they generating... You can't counter my figures, and state that they generate more than I state without stating the actual quantities...not bills.
I don't know the actually figures of what they produce, I'm talking about cost savings. The numbers I posted are real, people wouldn't have solar panels if it didn't work.
 

Shannow

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No, you said that they produce "a lot more power than that", against my 32KWh from 4KW panels...that's a statement of power generation, an actual metric, not good feeling about bills. What I started this thread for was metrics, not unicorn flatulence.
 

Nick1994

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How is someone going to deplete an entire Tesla battery per day? That's incredible mileage driven. I went on www.solar-estimate.com and it estimated in my location and for a home with an electric bill like mine it would need an 8.5 kW system, and would generate 13,246 kWh per year, or 36.29 kWh per day. The Tesla Model 3 has a 50 kWh and a 75 kWh battery with ranges of 220 and 310 miles. The average American drives around 15,000 miles per year, or 41 miles per day. 41 miles is 19% of the capacity of the small Tesla battery which means it would only need to be charged once every 5 days, or top off 19% of the battery everyday when you get home, or 9.5 kWh. Which is 26% of what solar panels would produce for my house. If you factor in the ~15% of energy transfer loss when charging, I guess it would be 30% of what the solar panels would produce. My work also has electric car charging for free.
 

Nick1994

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For a more realistic electric car, a Nissan Leaf has a 30kWh battery with a range of 107 miles. Average American drives 41 miles a day, or uses 38% of the battery a day, or 11.4 kWh. Charging it with 85% efficiency is 13.11 kWh per day to charge, or 36% of the daily electricity provided by the solar.
 

Shannow

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Ahhh handwaving now...look over there a bunny... The statement that I made was how much energy 4KW of panels made per day...nothing more. You stated that they made a "lot" more power Now you've changed your direction...handwaving..."look over there a bunny". Down here, if they charged your car for free, you'd be paying Fringe Benefits Tax on the service that they gave you...how many spaces have they allowed for this...every single one of you can charge your car ? And YES, when enough people adopt electric, the Govt WILL tax you on a per mile basis.
 
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Originally Posted By: PimTac
I cannot imagine owning a electric car in Australia and trying to drive it cross continent. Maybe if one sticks to the southern highways they might be successful. Even in the US, there are lots of vast areas where plugins are far and few in between.
Yep
 

Shannow

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Originally Posted By: Nick1994
For a more realistic electric car, a Nissan Leaf has a 30kWh battery with a range of 107 miles. Average American drives 41 miles a day, or uses 38% of the battery a day, or 11.4 kWh. Charging it with 85% efficiency is 13.11 kWh per day to charge, or 36% of the daily electricity provided by the solar.
Isn't your car at work, the mall, or on the road while the sun is shining ? Your panels aren't charging your leaf are they ??? Edit...can we get back to the topic rather than you trying to drag every conceivable angle in to obfuscate your indefensible statement regarding daily capacity.
 
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Nick1994

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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Ahhh handwaving now...look over there a bunny... The statement that I made was how much energy 4KW of panels made per day...nothing more. You stated that they made a "lot" more power Now you've changed your direction...handwaving..."look over there a bunny". Down here, if they charged your car for free, you'd be paying Fringe Benefits Tax on the service that they gave you...how many spaces have they allowed for this...every single one of you can charge your car ? And YES, when enough people adopt electric, the Govt WILL tax you on a per mile basis.
I'm not sure I understand the term hand waving? Even your estimates of 32 kWh per day generated are a lot more than what it takes to charge a Tesla. Over 3x more. That's a lot in my book. But when solar companies take into account people owning an electric car, they'll factor in more panels. Not a big deal. Only 3 people at my company have electric cars, and there's 3 spaces for charging. They'll add more if more people get electric cars. Maybe you're confusing me thinking everyone should own an electric car? Um, no? But for the some that do it's a step in the right direction IMO.
 

Shannow

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You are doing everything to divert from the "more power than that" statement WRT daily generation from a 4 KW panel. more power lower bills free at work Nissan Leaf Charge from home Not AT home That's what I'm talking about with hand waving... Now back to an all electric "Gas Station of the Future"...please
 

OVERKILL

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Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My quick Googling says it costs $3.95 to charge a Tesla. Solar panels produce a lot more power than that.
Do they ? How much do YOU think a 4KW panel setup produces in the average 24 hour period ? As to cost...it's really cheap until enough people use it...road taxes will be applied to the EV meter when there's a critical mass.
I've got a coworker that went from a $300 a month summer electric bill to a $40 a month electric bill. Also a distant family member that has had near $0 electric bills.
That's how feed-in tariffs and rate contracts work. When solar is generating through the day, and you aren't home using, the power is fed back into the grid (spinning the meter backwards) and paid significantly more than market rate because it is "green". When you come home, particularly in northern climates like mine where it's dark by 5PM at this time of year, you are using power that you've either stored during the day, or that comes from the grid. Enough of a shift in that direction and the value of power after hours goes up. If your buddy is getting $0.30/kWh for his solar feed-in rate, that's artificially high, which is what these programs bank on. The solar capacity for most people in residential settings is limited by the size of their roof (those unable to put solar "farms" in their backyard). Did the calculator you used bring-in roof size? You can't go based on prices, because that's not a fixed metric, that's what Shannow is getting at, you need to use actual consumption figures and production figures. Let's use your Tesla example again. The Model S 75D has a range of 226 miles @ 110F ambient and 70Mph. On a 90F day, that increases the range to 238 miles. I'd say your climate is more the former, no? But let's average them, so we have a 232 mile range on 75kWh, or 3.1 miles per kWh. That gives us a consumption figure of 13.23kWh for your 41 mile commute example. Now, say you work every day and never go anywhere on weekends, that's 264.6kWh per month. You can adjust that accordingly based on your driving averages. There's a solar roof calculator you can use here, and use your actual roof (it uses a map): http://www.solarroofcalculator.appspot.com/ To figure how much power a solar install at your house can make per day. You then need to factor in the cost of the panels.
 
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Fast forward to 5 minutes:
I'm not even checking, Merk. If you got to 5 minutes, you wasted 5 minutes of your life, and I'm not wasting the time to fast forward, even.
 
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