Full Synthetic Oil made from Natural Gas

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Originally Posted by sdowney717
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by sdowney717
Originally Posted by sloinker
The larger question is what percentage of the whole is GTL in the bottle, is it something akin to semi-synthetics of yesteryear?
It would have to be the whole amount, or it would be deceptive advertising, IMO.
Deceptive as in do you mean the remainder is typical Group III or Group II or I? Or do you just mean what's written on the label?
This is entirely made from Natural Gas not crude oil. There is no crude oil in this at all. I found a description of this oil and updated my prior post.
Even the carrier oils for the additives are natural-gas derived?
 
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I'm not saying it isn't 100% GTL. I'm also not sure if it's only 10% GTL. Only Pennzoil knows.....
 
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Originally Posted by pitzel
Even the carrier oils for the additives are natural-gas derived?
Almost certainly not. There will be some crude-derived substances in this oil, just not in the nominal base oils. As mentioned above, it is a Group 3, like other group 3s. The only difference is the source of the input to the hydrocracker - in the case of the natural gas sourced stuff this has come from a Fischer-Tropsch reactor, which generates a waxy product that goes to the cracker. From crude, the waxy intermediary is refined from the crude oil and sent to the cracker. The output is essentially the same stuff.
 
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SR5

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Originally Posted by sdowney717
Platinum Euro vs Platinum Euro LX is some of the AZ half priced oil I bought, what is the difference versus LX?
It's probably SAPS (sulphated ash) level, which is a reflection of the metallic additives in the oil. Stuff like Ca and Mg detergent for TBN, and Zn & P from ZDDP anti wear additive. These are good for the engine & oil life but can negatively affect DPF and exhaust cat life. The standard Euro will probably be a full-SAPS ACEA A3/B4 oil, while the LX is probably a mid-SAPS ACEA C3 oil. A standard ILSAC GF-5 oil is usually somewhere between the two.
 
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Originally Posted by SR5
Originally Posted by sdowney717
Platinum Euro vs Platinum Euro LX is some of the AZ half priced oil I bought, what is the difference versus LX?
It's probably SAPS (sulphated ash) level, which is a reflection of the metallic additives in the oil. Stuff like Ca and Mg detergent for TBN, and Zn & P from ZDDP anti wear additive. These are good for the engine & oil life but can negatively affect DPF and exhaust cat life. The standard Euro will probably be a full-SAPS ACEA A3/B4 oil, while the LX is probably a mid-SAPS ACEA C3 oil. A standard ILSAC GF-5 oil is usually somewhere between the two.
I've just had a look at the Pennzoil website. You've pretty much nailed it. The Euro is available in 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40. The Euro LX is 0W-30. The Euro product claims ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 but only the 2010 version - this isn't permitted by ACEA; you should always claim only the latest version (currently 2016). It also claims only to "meet API SN engine test requirements". Of the MB claims, it is listed by MB for the 229.5 and 229.3 but not the 226.5. The Euro LX is a mid-SAPS ACEA C2/C3 type (an interesting combination that requires you to deliver high fuel economy with a high HTHS), claiming VW 504 00/507 00, MB 229.31/229.51 etc. The MB claims are all listed but the PDS claims only "exceeds the requirements of" ACEA C2/C3 and API SN.
 
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I have quite a bit of it I got on clearance and anything I've used it in has turned black right away. I could understand my older cars but I dumped the factory fill in my wife's rogue and within 1k the PP was very dark. I went with valvoline after that and it stays clean the entire interval. I'm running it in an 09 impala and it burns quicker than the shell oil, same with my altima.
 
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Originally Posted by D1dad
I have quite a bit of it I got on clearance and anything I've used it in has turned black right away. I could understand my older cars but I dumped the factory fill in my wife's rogue and within 1k the PP was very dark. I went with valvoline after that and it stays clean the entire interval. I'm running it in an 09 impala and it burns quicker than the shell oil, same with my altima.
If that is your technical criteria for an oil then I'd say you did the right thing.
 
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Originally Posted by pitzel
Even the carrier oils for the additives are natural-gas derived?
No. GTL base oils have poor solubility due to the very low aromatic content. Therefore, the carrier oil for the additive package is most likely an ester or naphthalene. There's nothing special about GTL base oils. They don't "keep engines cleaner," that's just marketing mumbo-jumbo. Every brand says their oil keeps engines cleaner. GTL is just a cheaper way to make a group III base oil. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by pitzel
Even the carrier oils for the additives are natural-gas derived?
No. GTL base oils have poor solubility due to the very low aromatic content. Therefore, the carrier oil for the additive package is most likely an ester or naphthalene. There's nothing special about GTL base oils. They don't "keep engines cleaner," that's just marketing mumbo-jumbo. Every brand says their oil keeps engines cleaner. GTL is just a cheaper way to make a group III base oil. Nothing more, nothing less.
Yep, and one reason Shell is marketing this stuff like the next coming is that they went all in and spent a humongous amount of money on that Qatar GTL plant.
 
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Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
There's nothing special about GTL base oils. They don't "keep engines cleaner," that's just marketing mumbo-jumbo. Every brand says their oil keeps engines cleaner. GTL is just a cheaper way to make a group III base oil. Nothing more, nothing less.
I wonder if even that is true, considering the cost to construct the Pearl GTL plant. It's hard to compete with something you just pump out of the ground and you don't have to assemble first.
 
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
There's nothing special about GTL base oils. They don't "keep engines cleaner," that's just marketing mumbo-jumbo. Every brand says their oil keeps engines cleaner. GTL is just a cheaper way to make a group III base oil. Nothing more, nothing less.
I wonder if even that is true, considering the cost to construct the Pearl GTL plant. It's hard to compete with something you just pump out of the ground and you don't have to assemble first.
A rough analogy might be someone who installed a solar panel system and all the gear associated with it. The electricity is free but they spent $20,000 to get it.
 
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Originally Posted by D1dad
I have quite a bit of it I got on clearance and anything I've used it in has turned black right away. ...
It doesn't "turn black right away" for me. However the media of the first filter I used with it came out blacker than others before or since. I can speculate that that might mean the PP liberated pre-existing carbon deposits which the filter captured as fine particles.
 
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
There's nothing special about GTL base oils. They don't "keep engines cleaner," that's just marketing mumbo-jumbo. Every brand says their oil keeps engines cleaner. GTL is just a cheaper way to make a group III base oil. Nothing more, nothing less.
I wonder if even that is true, considering the cost to construct the Pearl GTL plant. It's hard to compete with something you just pump out of the ground and you don't have to assemble first.
Huh? Natural gas doesn't flow out of the ground and crude doesn't require cracking etc at a plant and reassembly into group III?
 
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Originally Posted by willbur
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
There's nothing special about GTL base oils. They don't "keep engines cleaner," that's just marketing mumbo-jumbo. Every brand says their oil keeps engines cleaner. GTL is just a cheaper way to make a group III base oil. Nothing more, nothing less.
I wonder if even that is true, considering the cost to construct the Pearl GTL plant. It's hard to compete with something you just pump out of the ground and you don't have to assemble first.
Huh? Natural gas doesn't flow out of the ground and crude doesn't require cracking etc at a plant and reassembly into group III?
Where does natural gas come from then? The different processes have their own cost structure. The Pearl GTL plant in Qatar cost Shell $24 billion and that's a old number. It's likely higher than that.
 
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And apparently the only reason the plant was built in the first place was to utilize the otherwise wasted methane, not that it made economic sense compared to traditional production.
 
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Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by pitzel
Even the carrier oils for the additives are natural-gas derived?
No. GTL base oils have poor solubility due to the very low aromatic content. Therefore, the carrier oil for the additive package is most likely an ester or naphthalene. There's nothing special about GTL base oils. They don't "keep engines cleaner," that's just marketing mumbo-jumbo. Every brand says their oil keeps engines cleaner. GTL is just a cheaper way to make a group III base oil. Nothing more, nothing less.
Okay.. It must be a more efficient process than making PAO from natural gas (or naptha), right? Otherwise they'd just make PAO directly, which is Group IV. Having said that, in most applications, performance may very well not suffer. And I still think most are better off with 0W-xx oils with Group III, than being forced to run Group I/II 5W-30s due to availability of base oils.
 
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What is up with the comments bagging on Pennzoil ? It is common knowledge that GTL offers near PAO performance, other than when starting in very lpw temperatures. So, Ferrari has got it all wrong ? And why is it XOM uses GTL in some of their formulations ? Check out some UOAs with Pennzoil Gold, using partial GTL basestocks. You may come off your Magnatec roost.
 
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Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
What is up with the comments bagging on Pennzoil ? It is common knowledge that GTL offers near PAO performance, other than when starting in very lpw temperatures.
May as well use GTL's output for lube oils, a higher value use, instead of just burning it as diesel fuel. Without GTL, ubiquitous manufacturer's recommendations of 0W-20/0W-30 probably would not be possible due to the physical supply. Pennzoil has gotten a bad rap over the years largely rooted on a misunderstanding of the scientific term "paraffinic", which does *not* mean wax, but rather denotes a specific molecular structure that should be very familiar to those with knowledge of organic chemistry. We don't say that Amsoil is crap because of the unique MLM model they use to distribute their product (which often causes some overly-enthusiastic dealers to make claims not substantiated by evidence). I don't see why such lack of courtesy would be afforded to other brands for which there is no technical merit of such.
 
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