Full C&D report on Mazda6/Accord/midsize comparo

[97tbird]

It's online now...
This part only covers the Last segment of the full comparo - Mazda 6 vs the Accord...

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/...comparison-test



Quote:
Able to venture further into the sports-sedan realm than the Accord, the 6 is a family sedan that doesn’t feel like surrender. It surpasses the class norms of packaging, price, fuel economy, and refinement; but its driving dynamics, acceleration, and interior and exterior design ultimately set it apart from the herd. Accord included.

 

[jrustles]

Honda's TV commercial is already exploiting this 'victory'. Like they had it waiting all along. By following the "playoffs", the Accord win was a curveball IMO

 

[zloveraz]

Not trying to be negative but has Mazda solved all of their blown engine woes from a few years ago?

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: zloveraz
Not trying to be negative but has Mazda solved all of their blown engine woes from a few years ago?


I'm dying to know what you are even referring to

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
Honda's TV commercial is already exploiting this 'victory'. Like they had it waiting all along. By following the "playoffs", the Accord win was a curveball IMO


Honda lost this one...

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: zloveraz
Not trying to be negative but has Mazda solved all of their blown engine woes from a few years ago?


I'm dying to know what you are even referring to


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mazda+6+engine+blown+up

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: zloveraz
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Honda's TV commercial is already exploiting this 'victory'. Like they had it waiting all along. By following the "playoffs", the Accord win was a curveball IMO


Honda lost this one...


Yeah, I see that. But that Honda commercial that runs on TV proudly refers to the last "intermediate" test where the Accord won for being "just enough of the same". It just seems like they weren't at first trying to offend big daddy Honda, but later felt compelled to report their true feelings between the two? I'm confused. I can't be the only one!

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: zloveraz
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: zloveraz
Not trying to be negative but has Mazda solved all of their blown engine woes from a few years ago?


I'm dying to know what you are even referring to


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mazda+6+engine+blown+up

whoa, virus site.

replace "mazda" with any brand name on that search.
Never really hear about Mazda engines blowing, aside from 2.3L DISIs that got hack job modded with sensor-tricking piggyback systems and bad tunes. It's easy to screw up a 2.3L gas engine making 280ft/lbs of torque below 3000rpm, especially at a time when turbo DI engines were not common, and few could tune them.

Done right though:
http://www.ecutek.com/Files/Products/Tun...&height=401

Look at the torque. Look at the RPM it peaks at. Weak engines can't do things like that.

 

[97tbird]

Originally Posted By: zloveraz
Not trying to be negative but has Mazda solved all of their blown engine woes from a few years ago?


FYI- Mazda is no longer affiliated with FORD - Now it's all Japanese and the SkyActiv engines (since 2012) have NOTHING to do with the Ford associated engines.

But even with The Ford/Mazda engines, I don't know any 'blown' engine woes - what the heck do you mean?
As several others have also asked, can you elaborate?

 

[buster]

I think Honda has slipped over the years. They don't even offer a turbo motor and they don't make a sports car. Pretty lame. Disappointed in what they've done over the last few years. Great cars in terms of build quality and efficiency/reliability.

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: buster
I think Honda has slipped over the years. They don't even offer a turbo motor and they don't make a sports car. Pretty lame. Disappointed in what they've done over the last few years. Great cars in terms of build quality and efficiency/reliability.


Agreed & I was born a Honda fan! 1981 Civic Wagon, semi-auto with the round headlights- was so heartbroken when it was written off.

Now, they're just getting more 'big corporation' by the day it seems. I know, that with the revenues they're pulling in, they could do a lot more in terms of model selection, engineering and better prices on their cars. It's not like they can't offer that right now.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: zloveraz
Not trying to be negative but has Mazda solved all of their blown engine woes from a few years ago?


That's what happens when you put a Ford Duratec30 in a Mazda.

As far as I know, it was a PCV problem. You neglect your PCV valve because it's a pain to access and your PCV system consumes all your engine oil.

I've been led to understand it was ironed out by mid '05. But my Mazda still gets a new PCV valve on a regular basis. If you don't know the Airtex Number, you gotta' get it from Mazda. The Ford part will fit in the engine but does not fit on the hose.

Really a moot point because the current 6 does not have a V6.

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: zloveraz
Not trying to be negative but has Mazda solved all of their blown engine woes from a few years ago?


That's what happens when you put a Ford Duratec30 in a Mazda.

As far as I know, it was a PCV problem. You neglect your PCV valve because it's a pain to access and your PCV system consumes all your engine oil.

I've been led to understand it was ironed out by mid '05. But my Mazda still gets a new PCV valve on a regular basis. If you don't know the Airtex Number, you gotta' get it from Mazda. The Ford part will fit in the engine but does not fit on the hose.

Really a moot point because the current 6 does not have a V6.



Thanks Spazdog for clearing this up for me, I don't have the best memory but I knew it wasn't my imagination.

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: zloveraz
Not trying to be negative but has Mazda solved all of their blown engine woes from a few years ago?


I'm dying to know what you are even referring to


Mazda 3 and Mazda 6 Engine Failures

The Mazda 3 has three versions of four cylinder engines, two of which are shared with the Mazda 6 and displace 2.3L. Most (but not all) of APA's complaints concern the 2.3L 4 cylinder engines. We have received a small number of reports on the 2L engine, which is much more widely sold.

The 2.3L turbo engine is rare on the Mazda3 (likely less than 2% of production) and also shared with the CX-7, in which it equips all vehicles to 2009 and most in 2010. It has had several issues with the timing chain assembly, and turbo failures. Mazda has extended the warranty to cover repairs and made an internal change to the recommended oil (synthetic oil no longer recommended). Here is the list of warranty extensions:

2007-2009 CX-7 and 2007-2008 Mazdaspeed 3: oil consumption and smoke coming out of the tailpipe. PCV valve and routing changes, turbo repair covered if it has been damaged. 7 years/140,000 km.

2007-2010 CX-7: noisy engine, more noticeable on starting. Warranty on the turbo and timing chain extended to 7 years or 140,000 km.

The APA does not have specific info about warranty extensions for this engine on the Mazda6; we assume it's similar to above. The engine equips less than 2% of Mazda6 cars.

Non turbo 2.3L engine on Mazda 3 and 6: 2004-2007

The engine may begin to burn oil seemingly all of a sudden at 80,000 to 100,000 km. The consumer would likely be unaware of the condition unless they check the oil regularly. If the oil drops below 2 litres in the crankcase, intermittent oil starvation begins to occur, typically first at the location of the number 1 connecting rod -- by this time internal damage is severe. If the consumer does not stop driving the vehicle, the rod can fail completely and pierces a whole in the side of the block.

The cause appears to be gradual overheating of the engine, due to 1) an internal defect in the catalytic converter that can plug up over time OR 2) the catalytic convertor plugs up over time from burned oil in the exhaust stream. There may be other causes.

Failures appear more common with the manual transmission, perhaps because crankcase ventilation or some other factor is more affected by the overrun that accompanies gear changes. Used engines are in chronically short supply and expensive. In Montreal some recyclers have stopped selling the engines because they're too troublesome. APA has sourced rebuilt engines for about $3,500 in Montreal (plus installation). APA has recorded about 35 written complaints from consumers and confirmed a high rate of failures with rebuilders. We have not written Mazda directly about this issue, but could do so given the number of complaints.

APA can obtain a below retail price to replace the engine in Montreal, and likely a bit of break at our recommended engine specialist in Toronto. Either shop would be competent to report on the engine damage.

 

[97tbird]

^ Good info, and certainly useful, in certain situations
- but none of that applies to the 2014 Mazda 6 or any of the Japanese SkyActive engines. One of the main reasons we went for the current 6 was that...: Mazda Japan developed the engine and all the mechanics from scratch.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: zloveraz
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: zloveraz
Not trying to be negative but has Mazda solved all of their blown engine woes from a few years ago?


That's what happens when you put a Ford Duratec30 in a Mazda.

As far as I know, it was a PCV problem. You neglect your PCV valve because it's a pain to access and your PCV system consumes all your engine oil.

I've been led to understand it was ironed out by mid '05. But my Mazda still gets a new PCV valve on a regular basis. If you don't know the Airtex Number, you gotta' get it from Mazda. The Ford part will fit in the engine but does not fit on the hose.

Really a moot point because the current 6 does not have a V6.



Thanks Spazdog for clearing this up for me, I don't have the best memory but I knew it wasn't my imagination.


It wasn't your imagination, but it did exaggerate the problem.

A lot of problems with the 2.3L was with the plastic oil filter housing. When over torqued several times it would develop cracks and the oil would slowly leak out. Since most people never check oil level, blown engines were sure to happen. But it was a relatively small problem only amplified by the internet.

To be honest, I pretty much never see any older Mazda blowing blue smoke out the tailpipe. Lots of rust, you bet, but no blue smoke. On the other hand I see lots of older Civics, Corollas and some Chrysler models blowing blue smoke when taking off.

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
^ Good info, and certainly useful, in certain situations
- but none of that applies to the 2014 Mazda 6 or any of the Japanese SkyActive engines. One of the main reasons we went for the current 6 was that...: Mazda Japan developed the engine and all the mechanics from scratch.



I never said it applied to the 2014 Mazda, etc... I asked if they had resolved there blown engine woes from the past...

Again not trying to be a meanie here but just because Mazda Japan engineered the new SkyActiv technology doesn't automatically make them impervious to mistakes or engineering design flaws. I think it's too early to tell if this new unproven technology will be reliable, only time and miles will begin to tell that story.

Believe me I love Nissan however those pesky Japanese engineers have had there fair bit engineering disasters, i.e cats that get sucked into the engine, oil consumption across multiple models, AT transmissions failing at 70K, etc, etc...

 

[pbm]

I've bought 2 brand new Mazda's and 1 brand new Honda in my life.
If I had to choose today it would definitely be MAZDA....

 

[97tbird]

Originally Posted By: zloveraz
just because Mazda Japan engineered the new SkyActiv technology doesn't automatically make them impervious to mistakes or engineering design flaws. I think it's too early to tell if this new unproven technology will be reliable, only time and miles will begin to tell that story.


That's true - I haven't predicted they will never have problems.

I just wanted to make clear to everyone that these new engine have NO associations with the Ford engines in the past.

Like you said, time will tell, but I am hopeful. Even if they do develop minor glitches in the future, (this is 1st yr for them) I'd much rather drive a lively car like this, than a snooze-fest with zero problems. (which doesn't exist anyway, the 'bullet proof' snooze fest mid-sizers we all know so well also have many glitches and problems but due to the sheeple atitude and marketing in the US, they get way less publicized)

 

[antiqueshell]

Consumer Reports seems to have very positive feedback from owners as far as reliability is concerned and that INCLUDES the 2.3L engines mentioned as being a bit troublesome.

Honda lost their way a bit after Mr> Honda died back in the mid 90s. It seems as soon as he was gone the bean counters and MBAs wrestled control of the company away from the designers and engineers.