FRPP Extreme Duty Recommendations for 2004 Ford Focus (5W-20)

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Just got off the phone with FRPP (Ford Racing and Performance Parts). Question: Do you recommend the use of 5W20 in a 2004 Ford Focus for Extreme Duty ie Autox or Track Schools? Answer: NO! Question: What do you recommend? Answer: Quality Full Synthetic 10W30 Below 80F (27C), Quality Full Synthetic 10W40 Above 80F (27C) Question: What about a straight 30W Rated Synthetic with a vicosity index like a 10W30 Dino. Answer: Might be a very good choice with a lack of VII although we have not tested a oil rated as such in the Zetec. Some of the racing/street 10W30's are essentially the same thing though. (I believe he was refering to Redline). Question: What about the Synthetic 5W-40 Diesel Rated Oils? Answer: Many of these are thicker than a car 10W40 and would put additional load on the oil pump. Question: Would this damage it, I have heard thick oils are detrimental to the VVT? Answer: No, it is just not needed. If you use one of these oils try to pick one of the thinner ones. VVT damage could only occur if the oil was very thick and not allowed to come up to temperature before being run hard. Question: I have some German Castrol Syntec ACEA A3 0W30 would this be a good choice for Auto-X where the oil might be a relatively low temp at the start but the car would spend alot of time in the upper end of the rpm range? Answer: We have not tested this oil but as long as it holds up without shearing it should work. Gene
 

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Originally posted by tenderloin: The SVT Focus Zetec variant uses I belive 5W or 10W-30 as factory fill. Is this the engine he was talking about?
My car is a std 130 bhp 2.0L Zetec. I went to pains to explain it wasnt a SVT but he said it didnt matter as the recommendations would be the same. SVT Factory Fill is 5W-30 Mobil 1. Gene
 
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I just called Ford racing. The person I talked to was nowhere emphatic as the person you talked to either against 5w-20 or for 10W-40. He did say if one was racing in hot weather going up to a 30 or 40 would be OK...It just depended on how hot it was and how hard you were driving. Of course thrashing a stock Focus........... He said for normal driving, 5W-20 was the way to go, but again if the weather was very hot a 30 weight would be OK. Btw, with the Mazda 2.3 PZEV available inthe Focus (standard here in CA.), why did you get a Zetec? My son has a 2002 ZTS with the Zetec...great car, but compared to the 2.3 PZEV? No comparison. That new motor is sweet! Smooth, quiet, HP and torque galore! [ June 23, 2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]
 

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quote:
Originally posted by tenderloin: I just called Ford racing. The person I talked to was nowhere emphatic as the person you talked to either against 5w-20 or for 10W-40. He did say if one was racing in hot weather going up to a 30 or 40 would be OK...It just depended on how hot it was and how hard you were driving. Of course thrashing a stock Focus........... He said for normal driving, 5W-20 was the way to go, but again if the weather was very hot a 30 weight would be OK. Btw, with the Mazda 2.3 PZEV available inthe Focus (standard here in CA.), why did you get a Zetec? My son has a 2002 ZTS with the Zetec...great car, but compared to the 2.3 PZEV? No comparison. That new motor is sweet! Smooth, quiet, HP and torque galore!
His Statement... "5W-20 if for fuel mileage period!" I think with FRPP it just depends on who you get on the phone. Sometimes you get someone with a lot of experience (You can tell they are not refering to the canned answers) and sometimes you get the "Warm Bodies". In my local the only way to get a ZX3 w/ 2.3L was move up to the "Premium". All of those locally seemed to be Automatics. I could get a leftover 2004 Zetec "Comfort" 5-Spd for Invoice - $2500 Rebate - $500 Dealers Choice Rebate. Basically it was the most fun to drive of anything I drove for 11K. The fact that it had AC / CD / Cruise / Tilt / Leather Wheel / Int. Wipers / Fog Lights / R.Window Defogger and Wiper / 16" Aluminun Wheels didnt hurt. Gene [ June 23, 2004, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Gene K ]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Gene K: Sometimes you get someone with a lot of experience (You can tell they are not refering to the canned answers) and sometimes you get the "Warm Bodies".
Yep...it seems seasoned professionals are harder to come by these days. [Wink]
 
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Say WHAT you have your RIGHT foot into it, and 5w20 super oil won't protect your engine. You mean parts will RUB together [Roll Eyes] STOP THE PRESSES 5w20 is Sh*T just for soccer moms that's it, not even the teenage daughter.
 
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How hard of a thrashing can one put on a stock focus anyway? Not trying to be a smart a $ $ but this just seems a little odd.
 

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Originally posted by goofy8: Say WHAT you have your RIGHT foot into it, and 5w20 super oil won't protect your engine. You mean parts will RUB together [Roll Eyes] STOP THE PRESSES 5w20 is Sh*T just for soccer moms that's it, not even the teenage daughter.
goofy8, I think if you only get on it once in awhile you will be fine. Reread the FRPP recommendations above: 0-30W is fine for 2 minutes at 3000-6750 rpm. However he recommends 10W-40 for 30-45 minute sessions at Road Atlanta on those mild 104F (40C) days. I didnt mention it but he did state 5W-20 would be fine for Drag Racing. His statement "5W-20 is for fuel mileage period!" was in reference to the reaons Ford was using 5W-20 in our cars instead of the 10W-30 Australia gets. I was om the phone for about 20 minutes so I didnt actually list all the questions I asked, just the highlights. Bottom Line: 5W20 doesnt cut it when the oil temp starts to rise. For eveyday driving its fine.
 

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quote:
Originally posted by Stab: How hard of a thrashing can one put on a stock focus anyway? Not trying to be a smart a $ $ but this just seems a little odd.
If memory serves about 112 mph down the back straight at Road Atlanta. The Focus is actually a pretty good Track School car. Responsive but slow enough the instructors are not afraid to ride with you and helps keep you from getting in over your head. Also you can upgrade to the complete SVT Suspension (Springs, Struts, Rear Bar and Links) for about $245. Gene
 
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quote:
STOP THE PRESSES 5w20 is Sh*T just for soccer moms that's it
[Embarrassed] Ah, yet another genius with no facts or data spouting off as if he/she really knows something. [Dummy!] Spend some time in the Used Oil Analysis section of this discussion board and then come up with something resembling back up for your assertions goofy8. I've been running 5W-20 in my V-6 Honda Accord and have been getting excellent wear results, even including trips across the Sierra Nevada mountain ranges which included plenty of full throttle passing manuevers under full load on hot days. I'm not saying that I would run 5W-20 if I was playing the track-day game, but for those engines which specify 5W-20 we have seen nothing but excellent low wear results in street use. Personally I was planning on switching out to 10W-30 at my first oil change based on personal historical biases, but the data posted here on BITOG changed my plan. John PS When did "Soccer Mom" become a term of derision and an indicator of low stress driving? You should see how the busy moms in a hurry drive around here [Eek!] . [ June 23, 2004, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: jthorner ]
 
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Well you can see I'm not a fan of 5w20. But what he is saying 5w20 for fuel reasons in USA. 10w30 in Australia because it works. 2mins for 3000 - 6750 rpms I can see this, maybe even little longer. So I will add this if add an oil cooler in the mix, used 10w30 would you now have the high temp protection, and perhaps better throttle response.
quote:
Originally posted by Gene K:
quote:
Originally posted by goofy8: Say WHAT you have your RIGHT foot into it, and 5w20 super oil won't protect your engine. You mean parts will RUB together [Roll Eyes] STOP THE PRESSES 5w20 is Sh*T just for soccer moms that's it, not even the teenage daughter.
goofy8, I think if you only get on it once in awhile you will be fine. Reread the FRPP recommendations above: 0-30W is fine for 2 minutes at 3000-6750 rpm. However he recommends 10W-40 for 30-45 minute sessions at Road Atlanta on those mild 104F (40C) days. I didnt mention it but he did state 5W-20 would be fine for Drag Racing. His statement "5W-20 is for fuel mileage period!" was in reference to the reaons Ford was using 5W-20 in our cars instead of the 10W-30 Australia gets. I was om the phone for about 20 minutes so I didnt actually list all the questions I asked, just the highlights. Bottom Line: 5W20 doesnt cut it when the oil temp starts to rise. For eveyday driving its fine.

 
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quote:
Originally posted by jthorner: Ah, yet another genius with no facts or data spouting off as if he/she really knows something.
Facts, data and proof are three entirely different animals.
 
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Bottom Line Is This (And I'm trying to be as fair and unbiased as possible): 5w-20's came about as being the recommended viscosity by manufacturers solely because of the desire to achieve higher fuel economy ratings. With that said though, the manufacturers (well, Ford) were smart in establishing a baseline spec. that enabled "regular 'ol" 5w-20 to be a darn good oil...much better than a "standard" 5w-30 has to be. UOA's PROVE this viscosity to be entirely appropriate in street-driven applications. BUT, even with the higher-quality specification, 5w-20's (PCMO's, not racing lubes) lack the viscosity and shear/film strength to be an ideal lube in a racing application (in an engine that isn't being rebuilt as a "true" racing engine would be...). [ June 23, 2004, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]
 

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Originally posted by Jelly: Bottom Line Is This (And I'm trying to be as fair and unbiased as possible): 5w-20's came about as being the recommended viscosity by manufacturers solely because of the desire to achieve higher fuel economy ratings. With that said though, the manufacturers (well, Ford) were smart in establishing a baseline spec. that enabled "regular 'ol" 5w-20 to be a darn good oil...much better than a "standard" 5w-30 has to be. UOA's PROVE this viscosity to be entirely appropriate in street-driven applications. BUT, even with the higher-quality specification, 5w-20's (PCMO's, not racing lubes) lack the viscosity and shear/film strength to be an ideal lube in a racing application (in an engine that isn't being rebuilt as a "true" racing engine would be...).
Thank Goodness, someone was able to express my thoughts! [HAIL 2 U!] I just dont seem very good at it myself. [I dont know]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by 427Z06:
quote:
Originally posted by Jelly: UOA's PROVE
I hope your major isn't one of the sciences.

Why? UOA's, at least IMHO, fully PROVE 5w-20 to be an acceptable weight in street-driven vehicles (engines) for which it has been recommended for.
 

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quote:
Originally posted by Jelly:
quote:
Originally posted by 427Z06:
quote:
Originally posted by Jelly: UOA's PROVE
I hope your major isn't one of the sciences.

Why? UOA's, at least IMHO, fully PROVE 5w-20 to be an acceptable weight in street-driven vehicles (engines) for which it has been recommended for.

I think his point is that the test is not under controlled conditions and the results of the analysis have to much margin of error. Also the people envolved in this study are not random. A better study would be to take 20,000 or so sequentially produced Ford Vehicles and have half of each body/powertrain combo run 5W20 and the other half run 10W30. Provide free oil changes to each owner every 3 mo for 20 years and a 20 year engine warranty. At the end of 20 years total up your internal engine repair cost for each group. Gene
 
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[LOL!] This is an oil info/hobby/chat board. A place where people exchange questions, answers and their experiences with various oil/auto related products, among other things. Every so often people show up asking pseudo intellectual questions and or arguments. They seem to get their jollies stirring the pot or subtly bashing, what many enjoy from this board. What you see and get from this board, is what it is. No more, no less. " 20,000 or so sequentially produced Ford Vehicles and have half of each body/powertrain combo run 5W20 and the other half run 10W30. Provide free oil changes to each owner every 3 mo for 20 years and a 20 year engine warranty. At the end of 20 years total up your internal engine repair cost for each group". Gimmee a break. [Wink] [ June 24, 2004, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]
 
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