Frontier Airlines smoke in the cockpit LAS

The FAA has valid concerns about 'Technically Advanced Aircraft" and a crew's ability to understand what is going wrong.

Off topic a bit, but we had an EC135 wiring harness fire on the ground. Prior troubleshooting revealed no clear reasons for the occasional pitch damper failures. When the thing finally shorted internally, it did so between the power wires and the shielding, right where the harness had a bend to allow for actuator motion.

Another issue we had was a pungent smell on our G600 Gulfstream, like bitter sulfur and rotten eggs, upon power up.

Turned out to be a water drain line ribbon heater that spews out smoke when it fails internally. That was really nasty, but no real risk, as it is encapsulated in fireproof insulation and outside the fuselage in the wing fairing area. The smell came in via the APU.
 
Cujet said:
The FAA has valid concerns about 'Technically Advanced Aircraft" and a crew's ability to understand what is going wrong.
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I've often wondered if the crew flying an airliner actually has a deep understanding of how all of the systems work and system interdependencies. Airliners are highly complex machines.
 
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wwillson said:
I've often wondered if the crew flying an airliner actually has a deep understanding of how all of the systems work and system interdependencies. Airliners are highly complex machines.
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They made things more complicated than they had to IMHO.

One thing for sure, if you feel it’s necessary to put the Airbus into electrical emergency configuration ( reduces electrics by 75% but no anti skid in emergency electrical configuration which means need a lot more runway and risk of blowing tires unless keep brake alternate brake pressure below 1000 PSI ) , at least keep following the checklist and put the aircraft BACK into NORMAL full electrical configuration just prior to landing ( regain anti skid and reverse thrust ).

They also landed on the shorter, parallel, runway even when ATC offered ( and they should have known no anti skid unless they put it back into normal electrical configuration , which they chose not to contrary to the checklist ) the longer runway.

Doing that long checklist ( putting it into emergency electrical configuration ) can be time consuming when getting the aircraft on the ground ASAP is often a better plan.

They were west of the airport, entered the downwind for runway 26L which also took extra time.

The winds were calm , coming in from the west, landing straight in on 8L would save time and put the checklist away UNLESS the smoke ( which they never had ) or fumes get bad enough that you feel performing the smoke removal part of the checklist is required ( depressurize, open ram air, rear outflow valve to blow cabin air out the back ).

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Just a civilian pilot said:
They also landed on the shorter, parallel, runway even when ATC offered ( and they should have known no anti skid unless they put it back into normal electrical configuration , which they chose not to contrary to the checklist ) the longer runway.
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Which could be evidence that the crew did not understand how the airplane works in emergency electrical mode?
 
wwillson said:
...and my assumption is that they were offered the longer runway before they were stabilized on the approach.
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Yes.

Also, the Airbus checklist doesn’t say to put the aircraft into electrical emergency configuration, it says CONSIDER doing it ( but Airbus says DO put it back into normal electrical configuration prior to landing if you do it ).

The main thing the checklist says is to LAND ASAP.

If smoke/fumes source cannot be determined
and persist or AVNCS / ELECTRICAL smoke/
fumes suspected:
ELEC EMER CONFIG...........................CONSIDER

Prior to landing, put aircraft back into normal electrical configuration.

At 3 min or 2 000 ft AAL before landing:
GEN 2............................................................... ON
EMER ELEC GEN 1 LINE................................ ON
 
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wwillson said:
I've often wondered if the crew flying an airliner actually has a deep understanding of how all of the systems work and system interdependencies. Airliners are high complex machines.
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When crap hits the fan do some pilots forget their training or freeze up ?
 
Dave Hess said:
When crap hits the fan do some pilots forget their training or freeze up ?
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To be fair to this crew, I have no clue how bad the fumes were ( but do not base the threat to flight safety solely based on how strong the smell is unless it’s causing other problems like breathing or vision ) that they were dealing with but I find many Airbus pilots don’t fully understand how to handle smoke/fume events or to handle that checklist.

The fact ( it’s in the report ) the Captain didn’t put the aircraft back into normal electrical configuration just prior to landing ( minimum 3 minutes ) , selected full reverse thrust ( when he should know it’s not available in electrical configuration ) , seemed surprised he had no anti skid ( not available in EEC and why he should have landed on the longer side, plus not applied more than 1000 alternate brake pressure …..something the PM should have been watching ) indicated to me probably a combination of panic and not fully understanding things.

I know that sounds harsh but that’s what a pilot would be told if they handled it that way in the simulator.

I know a pilot ( upgrade process ) who was given a scenario like that in the sim and he was criticized for putting the aircraft into the emergency electrical configuration when he should have just concentrated on landing ASAP ( lots of airports close by ) and consider doing the smoke removal part of the checklist versus overloading the crew putting it into the emergency electrical configuration when so close to suitable airports.

He passed but was criticized and I remember him telling me about it last summer.
 
wwillson said:
I've often wondered if the crew flying an airliner actually has a deep understanding of how all of the systems work and system interdependencies. Airliners are highly complex machines.
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Indeed. I couldn't imagine the stress when some thing bad happens.
 
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