From M1 HM 10W40 to AMSOIL ZROD 10W40 95 JAGUAR

[MNJ85]

Hello gents;

I have a 95 Jaguar XJS with a AJ16 straight 6 4.0 engine that I have been running M1 HM 10W40 in for 8 or 9 years. At the time I picked this oil, the ZDDP was 1100. A few years ago I found it went to 1000, and I just now found out it’s 900. The AJ16 is a flat tappet engine, so when I originally chose to stick with this oil, that was a factor. The car was my grandfathers new, and when I got it, I made the switch to the M1 HM and replaced the seals that leaked at that time. The engine has 118k miles and the car is driven on weekends only.

I think I want to switch over to Amsoil Z Rod 10W40 because of the higher ZDDP and because since they are a smaller company it seems that they won’t be constantly reformulating the oil into something unrecognizable from its original formulation, so I won’t have to worry about changing brands again.

My concern is with how the seals will react going from one oil to another. I have been pleased with no oil leaks with the Mobil HM this far, and when I called Amsoil Customer service today and asked about seal conditioners in their oil, they told me they don’t advertise any oil conditioners in their oils. So this point has me concerned.

Any help greatly appreciated

 

[blufeb95]

Just stick with the Mobil1 HM, not all flat tappet engines need old school HDEO levels of ZDDP, most flat tappet engines don't have super stiff springs nor supper aggressive lift where high amounts of ZDDP are needed.

 

[Strokenmerc]

Almost any HDEO would work for you and many are dual rated for gas and diesel. Cheaper and easier to find, win-win.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Hello gents;

I have a 95 Jaguar XJS with a AJ16 straight 6 4.0 engine that I have been running M1 HM 10W40 in for 8 or 9 years. At the time I picked this oil, the ZDDP was 1100. A few years ago I found it went to 1000, and I just now found out it’s 900. The AJ16 is a flat tappet engine, so when I originally chose to stick with this oil, that was a factor. The car was my grandfathers new, and when I got it, I made the switch to the M1 HM and replaced the seals that leaked at that time. The engine has 118k miles and the car is driven on weekends only.

I think I want to switch over to Amsoil Z Rod 10W40 because of the higher ZDDP and because since they are a smaller company it seems that they won’t be constantly reformulating the oil into something unrecognizable from its original formulation, so I won’t have to worry about changing brands again.

My concern is with how the seals will react going from one oil to another. I have been pleased with no oil leaks with the Mobil HM this far, and when I called Amsoil Customer service today and asked about seal conditioners in their oil, they told me they don’t advertise any oil conditioners in their oils. So this point has me concerned.

Any help greatly appreciated

I think that going to AMSOIL Z-ROD is an excellent idea. Less and less HDEO oils are rated for gas engines, and ZDDP levels have dropped dramatically in them due to DPF filters. Our D60 has ceramic rollers on a forget steel cam, so it doesn't really *need* ZDDP. And that's a 14.6L Turbo-Diesel engine. Don't gamble with your grandfather's legacy. Get yourself a $16/year annual AMSOIL membership at amsoil.com and buy any oil you want for 25% less than the list price. I am not a big fan of their ILSAC class oils because they're no better than what I can buy at Walmart. However, I love their driveline fluids and specialty motor oils.

 

[MNJ85]

Just stick with the Mobil1 HM, not all flat tappet engines need old school HDEO levels of ZDDP, most flat tappet engines don't have super stiff springs nor supper aggressive lift where high amounts of ZDDP are needed.

Thank you for your response.
Yes, I agree. That’s why I had settled for M1 HM 10w40 in perpetuity for this car, when they where at 1100, kept using it at 1000, but now they are at 900, and I imagine they will soon drop that too. This is why I am looking to Amsoil Z rod. Seems like a smaller company is less likely to constantly reformulate oils but continue to sell them under the same label. The ZDDP under 1000 concerns me .

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Thank you for your response.
Yes, I agree. That’s why I had settled for M1 HM 10w40 in perpetuity for this car, when they where at 1100, kept using it at 1000, but now they are at 900, and I imagine they will soon drop that too. This is why I am looking to Amsoil Z rod. Seems like a smaller company is less likely to constantly reformulate oils but continue to sell them under the same label. The ZDDP under 1000 concerns me .

Mobil 1 is not just removing ZDDP, they are replacing it with other additives, however, it's not an oil meant for classic cars. Heck, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is at 1000, and so is Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-40. That being said, Castrol constantly improves their 0W-40, so it's not reliable for you either. You need a specialty product for your vehicle. I use AMSOIL driveline fluids in my truck and ATF in our other vehicles. Their products are of solid quality and reliable. You won't be sorry for spending a few extra dollars with AMSOIL.

 

[CleverUserName]

I’ve heard some YouTube creators say not to switch from HM to another non HM oil as it can cause leaks. Personally I’ve never used any HM oils.

Mobil 1 Delvac ESP 5w40 has over 1000 ppm of ZDDP and Delvac Extreme 15w40 has over 1300 ppm.

You can also try adding a ZDDP supplement like redline break in additive to boost the M1 HM ZDDP by 10-20% which will get you to where you want to be @ 1000-1100 ppm range.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

I’ve heard some YouTube creators say not switch from HM to another non HM oil as it can cause leaks. Personally I’ve never used any HM oils.

Because YouTube is that magical place filled with qualified people that always give the best advice. Name me at least three seals in an engine that will leak after you stop using an API-approved high mileage motor oil.

Mobil 1 Delvac ESP 5w40 has over 1000 ppm of ZDDP and Delvac Extreme 15w40 has over 1300 ppm.

They can and will be reformulated any day now to meet even more stringent emissions. Delo has a ZDDP-free oil out already.

You can also try adding a ZDDP supplement like redline break in additive to boost the M1 ZDDP by 10-20% which will get you to where you want to be @ 1000-1100 ppm range.

And this is how you can reliably and guaranteed to sludge up a perfectly running engine. One doesn't simply mess with ZDDP chemistry in motor oil, it's not that simple.

 

[CleverUserName]

Because YouTube is that magical place filled with qualified people that always give the best advice. Name me at least three seals in an engine that will leak after you stop using an API-approved high mileage motor oil.


They can and will be reformulated any day now to meet even more stringent emissions. Delo has a ZDDP-free oil out already.


And this is how you can reliably and guaranteed to sludge up a perfectly running engine. One doesn't simply mess with ZDDP chemistry in motor oil, it's not that simple.

The YouTube video was goss’ garage so it may be credible. I’d trust his advice before some random posts on a car or oil forum.

HDEOs are unlikely to have less than 1000 ppm, even more so as many want to conform to the Ford WSS-M2C171-F1 specification. If the OP uses oil which meets the Ford spec he will get what he’s looking for. Most HDEOs in 40 wt meet the spec.

Break in additives are designed to be mixed with formulated oils, so very unlikely to cause any antagonistic effects in such small quantities.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

The YouTube video was goss’ garage so it may be credible. I’d trust his advice before some random posts on a car or oil forum.

Then why are you here?

HDEOs are unlikely to have less than 1000 ppm, even more so as many want to conform to the Ford WSS-M2C171-F1 specification. If the OP uses oil which meets the Ford spec he will get what he’s looking for. Most HDEOs in 40 wt meet the spec.

Please tell me how much ZDDP this HDEO has in it. Thank you.

Break in additives are designed to be mixed with formulated oils, so very unlikely to cause any antagonistic effects in such small quantities.

You're not supposed to add anything to a fully formulated motor oil. Please show me proof of the contrary. There are motor oil formulators on this forum that will absolutely and undoubtedly say the same. You, however, seem to know better and are just pulling advice out from where the sun doesn't shine and risk giving this forum member bad advice. Why do that when there is already a fully formulated motor oil that perfectly fits his unique needs in the form of AMSOIL Z-ROD?

 

[aquariuscsm]

M1 15W-50 (if you want to run a W-50) used to have a very high zddp level. Maybe 1200-1300?

 

[Deleted member 89374]

M1 15W-50 (if you want to run a W-50) used to have a very high zddp level. Maybe 1200-1300?

1200 Phosphorus and 1300 Zinc, it's a racing oil. It's still got that, but it's too thick.

 

[aquariuscsm]

1200 Phosphorus and 1300 Zinc, it's a racing oil. It's still got that, but it's too thick.

Nice phos and zinc levels!

 

[blufeb95]

1200 Phosphorus and 1300 Zinc, it's a racing oil. It's still got that, but it's too thick.

I thought old Jags spec'd 20W50 anyways, it should be fine.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Nice phos and zinc levels!

I bet it could help even a HEMI with a seized roller-lifter limp along without chewing through the cam all the way through!

 

[CleverUserName]

Then why are you here?


View attachment 61105
Please tell me how much ZDDP this HDEO has in it. Thank you.












You're not supposed to add anything to a fully formulated motor oil. Please show me proof of the contrary. There are motor oil formulators on this forum that will absolutely and undoubtedly say the same. You, however, seem to know better and are just pulling advice out from where the sun doesn't shine and risk giving this forum member bad advice. Why do that when there is already a fully formulated motor oil that perfectly fits his unique needs in the form of AMSOIL Z-ROD?

Like I said, I don’t use HM oils. Advice gleaned from said source fast forward to 6:30. Do you trust goss’ garage as a credible source?

Don’t know what HDEO your referring to. Is there supposed to be an attachment ? I can’t see anything.

Edit: I can see it now. That Delo 600 ADF oil doesn’t meet the Ford specification because it doesn’t contain ~ 1000 ppm of ZDDP.

All engine break-in additives are designed to be added to a fully formulated engine oils. Redline, Joe Gibbs, etc… It’s not fake news or a hoax, that’s how they work. Believe it or not, they are designed to be compatible.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Do you trust goss’ garage as a credible source?

God no, his explanations and comments are kind of comical. Just ask @MolaKule to set you straight on High Mileage oils. He's an oil formulator and a Genius in his own right.

Don’t know what HDEO your referring to. Is there supposed to be an attachment ? I can’t see anything.

Yeah, there is supposed to be a picture of a Delo 600 HDEO gallon jug. You'll find the VOA somewhere around on this forum. I'll patiently wait for your reaction.

All engine break-in additives are designed to be added to a fully formulated engine oils. Redline, Joe Gibbs, etc… It’s not fake news or a hoax, that’s how they work. Believe it or not, they are designed to be compatible.

Yeah, okay. I sucked at chemistry because the teachers I had never inspired me to like it, as they were brutal, unpleasant people. My bad luck, I guess. However, even I know that there are several different types of ZDDP. Some of them are even ester-based. I *shrug* just thinking what can happen if I mix them. That kind of ignorance is not rewarded with positive results. I'm sure of that.

 

[CleverUserName]

God no, his explanations and comments are kind of comical. Just ask @MolaKule to set you straight on High Mileage oils. He's an oil formulator and a Genius in his own right.


Yeah, there is supposed to be a picture of a Delo 600 HDEO gallon jug. You'll find the VOA somewhere around on this forum. I'll patiently wait for your reaction.


Yeah, okay. I sucked at chemistry because the teachers I had never inspired me to like it, as they were brutal, unpleasant people. My bad luck, I guess. However, even I know that there are several different types of ZDDP. Some of them are even ester-based. I *shrug* just thinking what can happen if I mix them. That kind of ignorance is not rewarded with positive results. I'm sure of that.

Why are you using the Delo 600 as an example? You know it doesn’t meet the Ford spec, which I provided because it doesn’t contain 1000 ppm of ZDDP.

I already answered your question about break in additives. The redline stuff does come in a POE base, but still the application is the same. You’re just beating a dead horse.

 

[blufeb95]

Like I said, I don’t use HM oils. Advice gleaned from said source fast forward to 6:30. Do you trust goss’ garage as a credible source?

Don’t know what HDEO your referring to. Is there supposed to be an attachment ? I can’t see anything.

Edit: I can see it now. That Delo 600 ADF oil doesn’t meet the Ford specification because it doesn’t contain ~ 1000 ppm of ZDDP.

All engine break-in additives are designed to be added to a fully formulated engine oils. Redline, Joe Gibbs, etc… It’s not fake news or a hoax, that’s how they work. Believe it or not, they are designed to be compatible.

Meh, that guy seems to know just about as much about the oil as every DIYer you see in the oil aisle at Walmart like he criticized at the beginning of the video, he spouts off that old wives tail about how oil is specified base on clearances blah blah blah, but the primary driving force of thinner oils is fuel economy regulations, not tighter clearances, as has been noted tons of times cars spec'd for 20 grade or thinner ILSAC oils in the US are spec'd for 5W-30 or 15W40 in Australia.

 

[MNJ85]

Mobil 1 is not just removing ZDDP, they are replacing it with other additives, however, it's not an oil meant for classic cars. Heck, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is at 1000, and so is Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-40. That being said, Castrol constantly improves their 0W-40, so it's not reliable for you either. You need a specialty product for your vehicle. I use AMSOIL driveline fluids in my truck and ATF in our other vehicles. Their products are of solid quality and reliable. You won't be sorry for spending a few extra dollars with AMSOIL.

Thank you for your reply.
I do wish I had gone to Amsoil Z Rod back when I got the car. I would not be having this problem now, I just was not aware that companies could continuously reformulate an oil but still call it the same thing at that time, and M1 HM was so easily accessible.

As I said, my ONLY concern making the switch now, is that the car has been running on M1 HM for 8 or 9 years, is leaks. …..The car has no leaks at the moment, but I can’t imagine that every seal in my engine is in perfect condition. But I have zero engine leaks, and I do attribute that, perhaps incorrectly, to the M1 HM…