From GMI: Saturn May Go To The Bank

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Take that one step further, the new Chevy trucks have the ugliest front-ends on them I've ever seen. I thought the newer generation of Ford trucks looked awkward, these new GM/Chevy's are butt-f-ugly. The previous design was more pleasant to the eye IMO.

The mid size car market they did OK in, Malibu & Impala.

There's a constant tug-of-war in figuring GM out: the unions slow down progress, the management & bean counters cut corners, the engineers must re-do designs in light of these two forces...this cycle goes round & round til the car makes it out the door.

I'm amazed that the new ultra-fast Corvette ever saw the light of day given the amount of [censored] bureaucracy at GM.

On a another note, why it TTAC complaining about the Saturn ION in last years worst 10 cars? The exterior looks like the newer Sentra, which people tend to like. Do people not like it only becuase it's a GM product? Dunno.

 

[ffracer]

Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn


On a another note, why it TTAC complaining about the Saturn ION in last years worst 10 cars? The exterior looks like the newer Sentra, which people tend to like. Do people not like it only becuase it's a GM product? Dunno.


Easy. The interior is 3rd world quality, plus the idiot center speedometer/tach thing. Worst ergonomics I have seen. Not everything Toyota does makes sense. So why copy it.

The car screams cheap like the Cavalier/Sunfire, except they aren't giving them away. Reliable cheap car with a 5-speed, but cheap.

The other Saturns of recent are a HUGE improvement.

BTW, I drove a new SL2 when it first came out out and it was pretty decent car, especially with a manual 5-speed.

 

[ViragoBry]

The Astra is the only Saturn I've ever liked, and it made an instant impression on me when I first saw spy shots of it in the car mags. There's no other 3-door on the market quite like it. I drove one last week and I believe it rivals the Japanese in build quality and content. I'd definitely take it over a Civic.

 

[wapacz]

Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
The Astra is the only Saturn I've ever liked, and it made an instant impression on me when I first saw spy shots of it in the car mags. There's no other 3-door on the market quite like it. I drove one last week and I believe it rivals the Japanese in build quality and content. I'd definitely take it over a Civic.

its also imported from Europe. From what I can find it is a pretty popular car over there.

 

[ViragoBry]

Yeah..isn't it sad that GM can't build a car like this on their own?

I will say that Opel definitely does things a little differently. Some of the controls in this car are bizarre. (Like the door lock button being on the dash above the stereo).

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

The Astra is a nice car, but it doesn't get the 35+MPG that the old Saturns were seeing. That's the rub to me. Otherwise, it's a really nice smaller car, with the $2,600 GM UAW-Surcharge included in the price.

Get this: TTAC reports that Saturn reports a whopping 8,130 units sold year to date.

Is this true?

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
Yeah..isn't it sad that GM can't build a car like this on their own?


GM can and does build cars exactly like that on it's own. It's a GM car.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn


Get this: TTAC reports that Saturn reports a whopping 8,130 units sold year to date.

Is this true?


CORRECTED: 8,130 is the November sales. YTD is 175,000 units.

 

[ViragoBry]

Originally Posted By: XS650
GM can and does build cars exactly like that on it's own. It's a GM car.


In much the same way that a Cayenne is built by Porsche.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
Originally Posted By: XS650
GM can and does build cars exactly like that on it's own. It's a GM car.


In much the same way that a Cayenne is built by Porsche.


The Cayenne has lot of VW in it and did before Porsche controlled VW. Which major parts of the Astra design aren't GM?

 

[ViragoBry]

What I'm saying is that it is a shame that GM couldn't produce a car like the Astra here, for Americans, instead of building it as an Opel in Europe and later bringing it here, after it's already old news over seas. It's like we only deserve Europe's sloppy seconds. GM relies on European design teams to come up with a viable product, and then decide it's 'ok' for Americans to have it. As big as GM is in the U.S., this situation should be the opposite. It's a helluva lot nicer car than a Cavalier or Sunfire.

 

[XS650]

I agree on the sloppy 2nds.

Your original post read like you didn't realize that Opel was a GM division. We aren't mind readers here.

GM Australia has some products we could use as more than an occasional niche Pontiac.

Even China has a nice RWD Buick based on an OZ GM platform.

 

[ViragoBry]

Speaking of Aussie products....I'm not entirely sure why the G8 hasn't been a runaway success. Bad timing for a V8 RWD sedan? Problably. I don't have a lot of experience with them, as Pontiac dealerships aren't exactly a haunt of mine...and Pontiac seems to put the G8 on spinning pedastals at car shows, so I've yet to sit in one. I like it a LOT more than any Grand Prix of recent years. But perhaps quality is lacking in areas I haven't seen in person yet.

Speaking for myself, it's a bit larger car than I need...but I'm not the typical U.S. demographic. The new Mazda 6 is a huge car compared to my Mazda 6, so they've lost me as a customer.

GM put themselves in a bad pickle with the SUV craze, because small cars were put on the back burner and huge overhead costs like the UAW, pensions, etc. prevent them from producing a profitable small car now. Until Saturn can somehow shed the reputation they garnered with cars like the Ion, Saturn may continue to be viewed as "the brand to avoid" for a while longer. The Sky was a HUGE image boost for them....I hope they can continue that trend with cars that are usable by people who need interior space and a real trunk. I love the Astra...but did it come to these shores too late?

 

[BGK]

Quote:

Speaking of Aussie products....I'm not entirely sure why the G8 hasn't been a runaway success. Bad timing for a V8 RWD sedan? Problably. I don't have a lot of experience with them, as Pontiac dealerships aren't exactly a haunt of mine...and Pontiac seems to put the G8 on spinning pedastals at car shows, so I've yet to sit in one. I like it a LOT more than any Grand Prix of recent years. But perhaps quality is lacking in areas I haven't seen in person yet.

The GTO bombed so people are leary of Austalian GM products and domestic cars in general. Heck, Ford dealers are giving away new Shelby GT500's now. The Pontiac is a real nice car that doesn't have the image of the Cadillac CTS. When it comes to American product, image is everything. The Chrysler 300 was hot at one time; now it's yesterday's news. Very few domestic vehicles have staying power. It will be interesting if GM has as tough a time with the new Camaro as Chrysler is having with the Dodge Challenger.

 

[mpvue]

GM is clueless (yes, I am the master of the obvious). they destroyed saturn's reason for being; they pumped lots of money into it over the 1st few yrs(to their credit) but then didn't develop it enough (you need new product to get people coming back. for too long, the S series was the only deal). they also had chrap marketing. the L series could have been a great car, but they couldn't market it (changing names, no model ID on car, no one knew what it was). so, they make saturn a full fledged member of the GM rebadge club, then wonder how come nothing is selling, complaining that they can't sell it off, because saturn doesn't have any standalone mfg. well, whose fault is that?
saturn can go away AFAIC. since they aren't made in TN out of plastic, they really aren't saturns anyway. w/o that different edge, they have no reason for being.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
GM is clueless (yes, I am the master of the obvious). they destroyed saturn's reason for being; they pumped lots of money into it over the 1st few yrs(to their credit) but then didn't develop it enough (you need new product to get people coming back. for too long, the S series was the only deal). they also had chrap marketing. the L series could have been a great car, but they couldn't market it (changing names, no model ID on car, no one knew what it was). so, they make saturn a full fledged member of the GM rebadge club, then wonder how come nothing is selling, complaining that they can't sell it off, because saturn doesn't have any standalone mfg. well, whose fault is that?
saturn can go away AFAIC. since they aren't made in TN out of plastic, they really aren't saturns anyway. w/o that different edge, they have no reason for being.

It didn't help that many people had problems with the L series V6.