Fram Titanium is no longer metal screen backed. Ultra, Endurance, Titanium ALL are synthetic *blend* media.

[Averroes]

See, that's the thing with cancer. When it's not stopped, it tends to spread.

Why could they not have kept the wire and used this material? Why break something that is not broken? I would be interested to see the per unit cost compared to the wired per unit cost for these ultra filters.

Bottom line wins, gone are the days where they care for the enthusiasts. There was a time where loyalty had no price, guess times have changed. I get it, I get it, efficiency numbers are good if not better, still, I have a new filer of choice and it's wire backed.

 

[Sayjac]

No surprise here to me. Posted last November (black friday at AAP) that the popular XG7317 application was in the process of change over from OG Ultra wire backed media to current (non-wire backed) Ultra media. Two newest (late 2022 production)) of four XG7317 filters on shelf were no longer wire backed.

Be much more surprised to see any new or current production Titanium with OG wire backed media.

 

[bullwinkle]

See, that's the thing with cancer. When it's not stopped, it tends to spread.

Why could they not have kept the wire and used this material? Why break something that is not broken? I would be interested to see the per unit cost compared to the wired per unit cost for these ultra filters.

Bottom line wins, gone are the days where they care for the enthusiasts. There was a time where loyalty had no price, guess times have changed. I get it, I get it, efficiency numbers are good if not better, still, I have a new filer of choice and it's wire backed.

Don't believe the efficiency, and DEFINITELY don't believe the dirt capacity numbers of new Ultra vs. old-2 layer true synthetic media beats sprayed-on synthetic over synblend of an unknown consistency any day.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Don't believe the efficiency, and DEFINITELY don't believe the dirt capacity numbers of new Ultra vs. old-2 layer true synthetic media beats sprayed-on synthetic over synblend of an unknown consistency any day.

Where is the dirt holding capacity of the old vs new Ultra in the same filter model shown by Fram? Realize that the new Ultra has more media area than the old Ultra (in the same filter model/size), which would help increase holding capacity.

 

[bullwinkle]

Where is the dirt holding capacity of the old vs new Ultra in the same filter model shown by Fram? Realize that the new Ultra has more media area than the old Ultra (in the same filter model/size), which would help increase holding capacity.

The new Ultra isn't going to have the depth media capacity of the OG/old Ultra. Not sure what it would take to fill up an OG, I could never stop them from rusting out first. Here's hoping FB isn't going to "decontent" the RP nor Endurance filters, they're kind of the last hope for a full synthetic passenger car filter at a fairly reasonable cost.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The new Ultra isn't going to have the depth media capacity of the OG/old Ultra. Not sure what it would take to fill up an OG, I could never stop them from rusting out first. Here's hoping FB isn't going to "decontent" the RP nor Endurance filters, they're kind of the last hope for a full synthetic passenger car filter at a fairly reasonable cost.

Without actual holding capacity measurements between the old vs new Ultra on the same model/size filter to compare, then it's just a 'theory' that the new Ultra has worse holding capacity. Total media area has a big factor on the total holding capacity. The new Ultra is still rated at 20K miles, so holding capacity is still high.

 

[bullwinkle]

My only issue with the “sprayed on” media concept is that some (many?) of the pores in the underlying supporting blend media will be blocked by the spray, it has to adhere to something. It’s going to get blinded off & bypass faster than a full synthetic 2-ply media will. Already seeing waviness & a few tears in new Ultras under longer OCIs that have never been seen in the older Ultras, hopefully First Brands chokes on their surplus $ from their newer, cheaper filters!

 

[ZeeOSix]

My only issue with the “sprayed on” media concept is that some (many?) of the pores in the underlying supporting blend media will be blocked by the spray, it has to adhere to something. It’s going to get blinded off & bypass faster than a full synthetic 2-ply media will.

Again, increasing the total surface area helps decrease dP across the media. And again, only an ISO 4548-12 test between an old and new Ultra of the same model/size would show what's really going on. Anything else is only theoretical speculation.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

What do people recommend now for premium filters now that these have gone down in quality? Purolator Boss?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

What do people recommend now for premium filters now that these have gone down in quality? Purolator Boss?

Fram Endurance or Titanium

Purolator Boss belongs in same pile as WIX XP/ NAPA Platinums- VERY stout construction with subpar media.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Fram Endurance or Titanium

Purolator Boss belongs in same pile as WIX XP/ NAPA Platinums- VERY stout construction with subpar media.

Aren’t those missing wire backing now too, though?

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Are you saying an oil filter is not subject to tension forces? "Wire backing" is literally rebar for an oil filter. I stand by my analogy.

Concrete by itself has incredible compressive strength, but poor tensile strength.

To counter this weakness, rebar is put under tension before concrete is poured over it, then after the concrete sets, the tensioners release. The rebar wants to return to its original untensioned state, but it’s now blocked from doing so by the hardened concrete. This “fight” applies an inward stress field into the concrete from the rebar mesh, much like pulling taught a bead necklace.

This tension on the rebar increases the overall strength of the concrete a LOT. It’s why we can build such amazing structures out of something with such a poor base tensile strength. It’s more sophisticated than just a wire backing; it’s essentially making an internally tensioned composite material.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Aren’t those missing wire backing now too, though?

Mesh backing is about as good as you’ll find today (cost), but the filtering efficiency is worth it. 99%+@20 microns is pretty well unparalleled when looking at construction.

Amsoil & RP make wire backed filters, but are more expensive and filter slightly less efficiently.

 

[fantastic]

Concrete by itself has incredible compressive strength, but poor tensile strength.

To counter this weakness, rebar is put under tension before concrete is poured over it, then after the concrete sets, the tensioners release. The rebar wants to return to its original untensioned state, but it’s now blocked from doing so by the hardened concrete. This “fight” applies an inward stress field into the concrete from the rebar mesh, much like pulling taught a bead necklace.

This tension on the rebar increases the overall strength of the concrete a LOT. It’s why we can build such amazing structures out of something with such a poor base tensile strength. It’s more sophisticated than just a wire backing; it’s essentially making an internally tensioned composite material.

Wire backing in my view is the same as before...

"They've proven to be the most durable "backing" that prevents tearing of the media."

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Wire backing in my view is the same as before...

"They've proven to be the most durable "backing" that prevents tearing of the media."

Yeah and if you read my post closely I’m saying that’s not really how rebar works. Mesh backing in oil filters is more analogous to cargo netting. I get what you’re saying about the rebar analogy, it’s just that rebar imparts strength to concrete in a bit more sophisticated way than wire mesh imparts strength to a filter.

 

[fantastic]

Yeah and if you read my post closely I’m saying that’s not really how rebar works. Mesh backing in oil filters is more analogous to cargo netting. I get what you’re saying about the rebar analogy, it’s just that rebar imparts strength to concrete in a bit more sophisticated way than wire mesh imparts strength to a filter.

Yeah, and if you read my post closely I'm saying Wire backing has proven to be the most durable to prevent tearing of the media. I didn't bring up rebar in my last post you did. I think some are reading way too far into my comment about rebar.

Regardless, "wire backing" does limit some of the same forces as rebar does. it's just that some will not admit it. Am I saying rebar is exactly the same as rebar... no but it does SHARE some characteristic forces & to say that it doesn't is nonsense.

 

[bullwinkle]

The (full) synthetic media isn’t strong enough without the wire backing-and the next cut open “sprayed-on” synthetic media Fram that looks anywhere near as good as my 20,000 mile OG Ultra did will be the FIRST! If I wanted a decent synblend media filter I would just use a Champ XL or Supertech MP and save 2/3 of the price…

 

[mitsuman47]

The new Ultra isn't going to have the depth media capacity of the OG/old Ultra. Not sure what it would take to fill up an OG, I could never stop them from rusting out first. Here's hoping FB isn't going to "decontent" the RP nor Endurance filters, they're kind of the last hope for a full synthetic passenger car filter at a fairly reasonable cost.

So, the Endurance actually IS fully synthetic media? I thought the email from Fram in the OP stated that it is a syn blend.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So, the Endurance actually IS fully synthetic media? I thought the email from Fram in the OP stated that it is a syn blend.

Email from Fram said the Endurance was a synthetic blend, and that is also said on Fram's website.

https://www.fram.com/products/oil-filters/synthetic-endurance

 

[mitsuman47]

Email from Fram said the Endurance was a synthetic blend, and that is also said on Fram's website.

https://www.fram.com/products/oil-filters/synthetic-endurance

View attachment 177272

Thanks for the info. And, that is some wonderfully deceptive corporate jargon.

I have a couple FE7317’s (purchased this week) that just say “Fully Synthetic media’ on the box. Nothing about a blend. No * leading you to fine print on the box. Nothing.

Maybe I got some rare FE cans that are stuffed with fully synthetic, non-blended media, and I’m sitting on a gold mine.

I’m sure the filters are perfectly fine for the intervals stated by the mfr. But, that makes the deception even more puzzling.

Is there a wire backed, 100% synthetic media filter on the market regardless of price for applications requiring the 7317 sized filter?