Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by wemay
I'm not an engineer so maybe there's a legitimate reason I'm not aware of for this situation. But as a layman, when I see a filter was designed with operational louvers in mind and some of those louvers are not "open", wouldn't that equal a manufacturing error?
Fair and very legitimate question- please let me address it (in theory since we do not know the design engineering of the application)
A hole (orifice) is a hole- be it round or any other shape. In flow it allows a metered amount to pass through creating a "pool" on the high pressure side and a "jet" (higher velocity) on the other.
You put an orifice plate in a pipe to meter flow- thus the "hole" variant.
This is not even addressing vortexing or cyclonic flows- beyond the scope of this answer.
The "louver" does the same thing but also changes a direction on one side while creating a "weir" on the other which changes velocity and can create various states of suspension or other properties of a fluid such as particle separation ( look up the separator on a screw compressor air end to see an application of how this works)
So, whoever selected the louver has a design point in mind ( they are more expensive than just a hole punch die set) and that design point has a flow range.
So the question then becomes is the "slit" ( orifice size) within design tolerance ( to provide design flow) or not.
If its not- we have a defective filter, if it is then carry on.
That's the question to be addressed and it cannot be accurately determined with nothing more than a visual observation by people who don't understand the science or construction involved and base the "decision" solely on an "it looks like" analysis evaluated by a "Heres what I think" set of standards.
That's why I asked did anyone ever contact the OEM to see or just jump to baseless unfounded conclusions shored up wholly by a guess?
So far, than answer appears to be no. If that's correct then all opinions ( be them design defect, proper or improper) are currently unfounded speculation at this point.
All I pointed out was that there is a legitimate science and reason where the slits COULD BE correct and proper for that design ( pending further data)
All of that straw is blown out of the water based on the fact that engines use a positive displacement oil pump. Why would an engineer purposely design a filter with choked down louvers which would cause the delta-p across the filter to increase and potentially cause the bypass valve to operate when it really shouldn't? I'm sure most people here wouldn't want their oil filter in bypass when it shouldn't be ... expecpt for those who think torn media (a constant bypass event) is fine too.
So what do you think the purpose of the wide open eCore center tube is in terms of controlling flow and filtration performance? Wide open eCore center tubes are designed to reduced the delta-p across the filter and to make the flow field more uniform. Wide open louvers is the step between holes and an eCore center tube ... but only IF they are formed correctly. And as has been mentioned before in these discussions, louver manufacturing is just as easy and a cleaner way (not waste material to deal with) to manufacture center tubes.
Originally Posted by wemay
I'm not an engineer so maybe there's a legitimate reason I'm not aware of for this situation. But as a layman, when I see a filter was designed with operational louvers in mind and some of those louvers are not "open", wouldn't that equal a manufacturing error?
Fair and very legitimate question- please let me address it (in theory since we do not know the design engineering of the application)
A hole (orifice) is a hole- be it round or any other shape. In flow it allows a metered amount to pass through creating a "pool" on the high pressure side and a "jet" (higher velocity) on the other.
You put an orifice plate in a pipe to meter flow- thus the "hole" variant.
This is not even addressing vortexing or cyclonic flows- beyond the scope of this answer.
The "louver" does the same thing but also changes a direction on one side while creating a "weir" on the other which changes velocity and can create various states of suspension or other properties of a fluid such as particle separation ( look up the separator on a screw compressor air end to see an application of how this works)
So, whoever selected the louver has a design point in mind ( they are more expensive than just a hole punch die set) and that design point has a flow range.
So the question then becomes is the "slit" ( orifice size) within design tolerance ( to provide design flow) or not.
If its not- we have a defective filter, if it is then carry on.
That's the question to be addressed and it cannot be accurately determined with nothing more than a visual observation by people who don't understand the science or construction involved and base the "decision" solely on an "it looks like" analysis evaluated by a "Heres what I think" set of standards.
That's why I asked did anyone ever contact the OEM to see or just jump to baseless unfounded conclusions shored up wholly by a guess?
So far, than answer appears to be no. If that's correct then all opinions ( be them design defect, proper or improper) are currently unfounded speculation at this point.
All I pointed out was that there is a legitimate science and reason where the slits COULD BE correct and proper for that design ( pending further data)
All of that straw is blown out of the water based on the fact that engines use a positive displacement oil pump. Why would an engineer purposely design a filter with choked down louvers which would cause the delta-p across the filter to increase and potentially cause the bypass valve to operate when it really shouldn't? I'm sure most people here wouldn't want their oil filter in bypass when it shouldn't be ... expecpt for those who think torn media (a constant bypass event) is fine too.
So what do you think the purpose of the wide open eCore center tube is in terms of controlling flow and filtration performance? Wide open eCore center tubes are designed to reduced the delta-p across the filter and to make the flow field more uniform. Wide open louvers is the step between holes and an eCore center tube ... but only IF they are formed correctly. And as has been mentioned before in these discussions, louver manufacturing is just as easy and a cleaner way (not waste material to deal with) to manufacture center tubes.