Fram TG vs. XG Oil Filter for 5K mile / 6 month OCI ?

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If both filter at 99% at 20u - then should the Fram Tough Guard be all you need to safely run for 5K mile / 6 month OCI's and have an engine last 300K miles with SP / GF-6 rated synthetic oils from WM ?
 
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What difference are you expecting between the two filters? 300,000 miles at 5,000 miles per year will take 60 years . If my math is correct. Am I missing something here?
 
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If both filter at 99% at 20u - then should the Fram Tough Guard be all you need to safely run for 5K mile / 6 month OCI's and have an engine last 300K miles with SP / GF-6 rated synthetic oils from WM ?
A toughguard is rated for 15k miles. 5k miles is a walk in the park. An Extraguard at 95% efficiency will do fine also and the difference in efficiency will have no effect on longevity. Changing the oil at the right time will have the biggest benefit.

There's no way to predict an engine making it to 300k.
 

ZeeOSix

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What difference are you expecting between the two filters? 300,000 miles at 5,000 miles per year will take 60 years . If my math is correct. Am I missing something here?
Depends how many miles are driven per year. If it's driven 15K/year, then it's only 20 years. 😄
 
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then should the Fram Tough Guard be all you need to safely run for 5K mile / 6 month OCI's and have an engine last 300K miles with SP / GF-6 rated synthetic oils from WM ?
No one can answer that with one iota of certainty. Even if you got Fram engineers and engineers from the folks who make WM's oil together, their answer would be "probably".
 

dnewton3

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You've not stated what vehicle and what conditions the filter would be operated in, so we're all going to have to accept that this is theory and not specific. We can make generalized statements, but there's always some clown who's gonna say " ... yabut whut about a monster sludge engine run in Alberta in sub-freezing temps with 20w-50 and no block heater on a cold start when trying to get away from a hungry polar bear ...."

I'm going to constrain my advice to "normal" stuff and not absurd conditions. Both the TG and the Ultra are overkill in this situation and a waste of money. The EG will handle this situation with no problems whatsoever, even though the claimed efficiency is only 95%. I've run EGs for 10k miles many times and when cut apart, they are fine.

Efficiency is important, but only to a point. The small difference between 99% and 95% in 5k mile OCIs is essentially moot; your engine wear isn't THAT sensitive to a claimed number which probably varies in truth, depending upon which Fram filter model you'd choose in the first place. Secondly, capaity is important, but at 5k mile OCIs on a decent clean running engine, there's not going to be any concern for overloading the media.
Given a "normal" situation and 5k mile OCI ...
- an EG is already overkill for your true need, rated at 10k miles
- TGs are moreso over-capacitized, being rated at 15k miles
- XGs are the creme de le creme of waste, at 20k miles

Why pay for capacity you'll NEVER use, and efficiency ratings that will NEVER manifest into tangible wear differences?
 
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If both filter at 99% at 20u - then should the Fram Tough Guard be all you need to safely run for 5K mile / 6 month OCI's and have an engine last 300K miles with SP / GF-6 rated synthetic oils from WM ?
Yes.I do stop n go traffic,average oil change every 6 months,3-3,800 miles.always cut open oil filters,and flush old oil out with cheap new oil.filter medias are always black,used. Used them all. The oil didn't burn off the contaminants at my intervals,so the filter media is used up sooner .the 15,000 mile thing,is if your driving highway and in non stop go traffic.
 

ZeeOSix

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The EG will handle this situation with no problems whatsoever, even though the claimed efficiency is only 95%.
95% @ 20u is way better than some filters out there ... so don't know who's claiming the "only" part. 😄
 

ChrisD46

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You've not stated what vehicle and what conditions the filter would be operated in, so we're all going to have to accept that this is theory and not specific. We can make generalized statements, but there's always some clown who's gonna say " ... yabut whut about a monster sludge engine run in Alberta in sub-freezing temps with 20w-50 and no block heater on a cold start when trying to get away from a hungry polar bear ...."

I'm going to constrain my advice to "normal" stuff and not absurd conditions. Both the TG and the Ultra are overkill in this situation and a waste of money. The EG will handle this situation with no problems whatsoever, even though the claimed efficiency is only 95%. I've run EGs for 10k miles many times and when cut apart, they are fine.

Efficiency is important, but only to a point. The small difference between 99% and 95% in 5k mile OCIs is essentially moot; your engine wear isn't THAT sensitive to a claimed number which probably varies in truth, depending upon which Fram filter model you'd choose in the first place. Secondly, capaity is important, but at 5k mile OCIs on a decent clean running engine, there's not going to be any concern for overloading the media.
Given a "normal" situation and 5k mile OCI ...
- an EG is already overkill for your true need, rated at 10k miles
- TGs are moreso over-capacitized, being rated at 15k miles
- XGs are the creme de le creme of waste, at 20k miles

Why pay for capacity you'll NEVER use, and efficiency ratings that will NEVER manifest into tangible wear differences?
*What about running a Tough Guard or Ultra for two consecutive 4K ~ 5K mile OCI's in a GDI engine - the filter should be able to handle this correct ?
 
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What year did Fram bump up their mileage claims? I stayed away from bitog for multiple years. Fram Ultra (XG) used to be 10k, then 15k. P.S. I have TG on my Volt nearing 2 years and 10k+ miles. Since I found 4 on clearance. I usually go with Ultra or M1 if ultra is not in stock, for all cars.
 

ZeeOSix

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Think the Ultra went from 15K to 20K about 5 years ago. You can look at Fram.com archives on the "way back machine".


Looks like the Ultra went from 15K to 20K rating somewhere between Apr and Oct 2017.

Screenshot 2022-08-09 at 12-33-06 Ultra Synthetic Oil Filter FRAM.jpg


Screenshot 2022-08-09 at 12-32-01 Ultra Synthetic Oil Filter FRAM.jpg
 
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As always, no substitute for "cut it open & look", build up the interval gradually. First OG Ultra I ran on the xB only went 5000, then 7500, then 10K, then 20K. Otherwise you have no idea what it can handle. For instance, the tiny PH/TG/XG10060 on my '11 Express is still picking up a good quantity of carbon, so 5K is all the further it goes, OLM be [censored]!
 

ChrisD46

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* With a DI soot producing engine and a TG/XG Fram rated for 99% @ 20 microns , what is the affect of soot on / in such a oil filter ? Does it pass soot or filter soot ?
 

ZeeOSix

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* With a DI soot producing engine and a TG/XG Fram rated for 99% @ 20 microns , what is the affect of soot on / in such a oil filter ? Does it pass soot or filter soot ?
Only a super high efficiency (like 95% @ 2u) bypass type filter would trap soot effectively.
 
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