Fram PH/TG/XG 7317 All Getting Champion Labs Treatment

[Sayjac]

I wonder if the 15400-PLM-A02 will get the Champion Labs treatment soon, too.

The A02 is made to Honda specs by Fram. Changing to Champ Labs means different construction type and I would think it would have to be approved by Honda. That said, might just be a matter of FB telling Honda new design still meets their specs/requirements.

The biggest issue 'I see' with change to the Champ Labs made design, is the bypass piece seal area design. Until and unless that issue is fixed/addressed to my satisfaction, I have zero interest in any Champ Labs made filter now.

And contrary to oft repeated/posted but inaccurate information, the Honda A02 is not the same as the PH7317 or TG7317. Multiple reliable sources including but not limited to a personal comment to me by a Fram engineer, the A02 media is significantly less efficient than either Fram filter.

Your post 'appears' to indicate that the change to Champ Labs made could be permanent across all Fram. Time will tell. As for numbering system of new Puro LX, agree that likely a WM request. The Fram numbering system is likely the most recognizable system. Years ago, did similar at AAP with their Advance "Total Grip" filter.

 

[WiskyBadger]

Agree, XG is not worth the cost anymore …

Agree, our Edge had one that tore in 4500 miles.

 

[Enthusiast]

With the problems with the ultra and the endurance, why isn't the go to the Tough Guard the go to instead of Prime Guard since neither are full synthetic?

 

[DannyM]

With the problems with the ultra and the endurance, why isn't the go to the Tough Guard the go to instead of Prime Guard since neither are full synthetic?

I guess because the TG has the same leaf spring people are complaining about with other Fram filters.. and how did Prime Guard enter the Convo ? You mean Premium Guard ?

 

[Glenda W.]

With the problems with the ultra and the endurance, why isn't the go to the Tough Guard the go to instead of Prime Guard since neither are full synthetic?

Why support a company with bad QC by purchasing another filter from them?

I simply spend my money elsewhere and support a different company.

 

[Enthusiast]

I guess because the TG has the same leaf spring people are complaining about with other Fram filters.. and how did Prime Guard enter the Convo ? You mean Premium Guard ?

Sorry about that. Premium Guard is what I meant.

I would think the flexible nature of fiber end discs vs metal might make the difference.

My reasoning is doesn't TG have better filtering efficiency that Premium Guard? Also, my concern is what Motorking said years ago that filtering media connected to metal end caps are more prone to tearing than it is when connected to fiber end discs. I say this because look at how after enough people switch to the favorite filter of the year. We start seeing failures. Did they cheapen it or was this always a problem we became more aware of?

 

[DannyM]

Sorry about that. Premium Guard is what I meant.

I would think the flexible nature of fiber end discs vs metal might make the difference.

My reasoning is doesn't TG have better filtering efficiency that Premium Guard? Also, my concern is what Motorking said years ago that filtering media connected to metal end caps are more prone to tearing than it is when connected to fiber end discs. I say this because look at how after enough people switch to the favorite filter of the year. We start seeing failures. Did they cheapen it or was this always a problem we became more aware of?

I think the TG is now metal caps afaik with the Champ build or at least transitioning possibly.

I guess most have issue with the Fram product leaking leaf spring from what I have read here. If Fram keeps these filters built with the Champ design and fixes that leaf spring I would probably go with the TG because it is so easy to grab one at Walmart and it is one of the few filters 99%@20 plus silicone adbv that is not a rip off at roughly $7.

 

[Fair enough]

The A02 is made to Honda specs by Fram. Changing to Champ Labs means different construction type and I would think it would have to be approved by Honda. That said, might just be a matter of FB telling Honda new design still meets their specs/requirements.

The biggest issue 'I see' with change to the Champ Labs made design, is the bypass piece seal area design. Until and unless that issue is fixed/addressed to my satisfaction, I have zero interest in any Champ Labs made filter now.

And contrary to oft repeated/posted but inaccurate information, the Honda A02 is not the same as the PH7317 or TG7317. Multiple reliable sources including but not limited to a personal comment to me by a Fram engineer, the A02 media is significantly less efficient than either Fram filter.

Your post 'appears' to indicate that the change to Champ Labs made could be permanent across all Fram. Time will tell. As for numbering system of new Puro LX, agree that likely a WM request. The Fram numbering system is likely the most recognizable system. Years ago, did similar at AAP with their Advance "Total Grip" filter.

That’s interesting, why Honda would ask Fram to make the less efficient media rather than using stock media. What does Honda know more? Toyota, apparenty the same, Subaru Roki, apparently the same. Virtually down the line manufacturers shy away from the highly touted medias.

 

[KCJeep]

As far as I’ve seen so far the Tough Guard has remained unchanged. At the rate First Brands is going it is not likely to stay that way.

 

[CarsSimplified]

Your post 'appears' to indicate that the change to Champ Labs made could be permanent across all Fram. Time will tell.

Indeed; I didn't mean to make it sound certain/permanent.

Virtually down the line manufacturers shy away from the highly touted medias.

I imagine old, well-established filter media technology sounds like much less of a warranty/recall risk for manufacturers, on top of the cost savings per filter.

 

[Mainia]

How many proved the filter damaged the engine? 5-10 in 5 years???? Not many, I bet.

 

[Coolant Kid]

Late last year, I discovered the PH7317 had become an E-core with a non-silicone (black) ADBV. I liked the change and welcomed the nylon cage core. Before long, the silicone ADBV came back and I noticed that all the Fram filters (Extra Guard, Tough Guard, Ultra and Endurance) had adopted the E-core design. I was glad to see the silicone come back and was really indifferent to the change in the more expensive models, since all I bought was the Extra Guard and got the nylon cage I wanted and didn't spend much money. Mind you, the Supertech 7317 was discontinued, so I couldn't get that as an even cheaper option and I'm not interested in running the shorty 6607.

Fast forward to now, I have discovered that Fram has switched to a louvered metal core on the Extra Guard. This is a huge disappointment! Not to mention, the ones I'm seeing seem to have very poorly formed openings. I then looked at Tough Guard, Ultra and Endurance and they all have gone to the louvered core. I went to a different, less busy Walmart and luckily found the Ultra and Endurance there had some older stock with the nylon cores. But, I don't like having to spend $10-$12 range just to get what used to be the cheapest design - an E-core.

I've been buying Fram filters for 31 years and while I knew they may not be the ideal filter for filtering purposes, I never had worries about flow and we all know good flow is more imporant than ultimate filtering ability. Now today, I'm going to have to find another option, but sadly it'll likely have to be something online. I can't just stroll into a local Walmart and get a filter any more.

To second what user parshisa said in an earlier post, I wouldn't be surprised if Fram was putting the same media in all these filters. If they put nitrile ADBV on these filters for awhile last year, you can tell this company doesn't care about living up to what they state on the packaging. When all models had the E-core at the same time, I was looking at each and they all had the same looking media and I was shining my smartphone flashlight into them to try and get a good look. They didn't look different at all. Can you imagine spending $12 for an Endurance, just to be getting an Extra Guard painted dark blue? The new louvered core makes it even easier to pull this off, since you can't see the media through those little slits and the typical consumer isn't going to cut open a new filter to check.

I also wonder if we have seen the last of the nylon cage. With the recent changes, has Fram decided the louvered core will be the de facto standard going forward for all filters they produce, from any brand? I wish I could find an E-core 7317 that I could order online for cheap and be sure I would receive something without a poorly formed louvered core.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I then looked at Tough Guard, Ultra and Endurance and they all have gone to the louvered core.

I've been buying Fram filters for 31 years and while I knew they may not be the ideal filter for filtering purposes, I never had worries about flow and we all know good flow is more imporant than ultimate filtering ability. Now today, I'm going to have to find another option, but sadly it'll likely have to be something online. I can't just stroll into a local Walmart and get a filter any more.

If the louvers aren't choked down much then it will be fine. Engines use a positive displacement oil pump, so a few dP more from one filter to the next isn't going to matter in terms of flow. Just have to be able to judge the louvers. Been plenty of good vs bad formed louver pictures posted here for years.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I also wonder if we have seen the last of the nylon cage. With the recent changes, has Fram decided the louvered core will be the de facto standard going forward for all filters they produce, from any brand? I wish I could find an E-core 7317 that I could order online for cheap and be sure I would receive something without a poorly formed louvered core.

Buy something like a MicroGard Select or a Carquest Premium with lots of large holes in the metal center tube and you get away from louvers.

 

[Fair enough]

Nylon cage March 2025 date. Also poorly centered end caps, adbv pushed over and the base holes were open on one side. Plus that black on the adbv is dirt with visible metal flecks. Base plate not cleaned well. PH3614

 

[Glenda W.]

Nylon cage March 2025 date. Also poorly centered end caps, adbv pushed over and the base holes were open on one side. Plus that black on the adbv is dirt with visible metal flecks. Base plate not cleaned well. PH3614

View attachment 288060

View attachment 288061

Good catch. No go for me.

 

[DannyM]

To second what user parshisa said in an earlier post, I wouldn't be surprised if Fram was putting the same media in all these filters. If they put nitrile ADBV on these filters for awhile last year, you can tell this company doesn't care about living up to what they state on the packaging. When all models had the E-core at the same time, I was looking at each and they all had the same looking media and I was shining my smartphone flashlight into them to try and get a good look. They didn't look different at all. Can you imagine spending $12 for an Endurance, just to be getting an Extra Guard painted dark blue? The new louvered core makes it even easier to pull this off, since you can't see the media through those little slits and the typical consumer isn't going to cut open a new filter to check.

This is the most important part of your post IMO.

 

[Stelth]

Is the combo valve still a thing? Will these get it?

 

[Hohn]

The A02 is made to Honda specs by Fram. Changing to Champ Labs means different construction type and I would think it would have to be approved by Honda. That said, might just be a matter of FB telling Honda new design still meets their specs/requirements.

The biggest issue 'I see' with change to the Champ Labs made design, is the bypass piece seal area design. Until and unless that issue is fixed/addressed to my satisfaction, I have zero interest in any Champ Labs made filter now.

And contrary to oft repeated/posted but inaccurate information, the Honda A02 is not the same as the PH7317 or TG7317. Multiple reliable sources including but not limited to a personal comment to me by a Fram engineer, the A02 media is significantly less efficient than either Fram filter.

Your post 'appears' to indicate that the change to Champ Labs made could be permanent across all Fram. Time will tell. As for numbering system of new Puro LX, agree that likely a WM request. The Fram numbering system is likely the most recognizable system. Years ago, did similar at AAP with their Advance "Total Grip" filter.

Yes, There’s a process called PPAP (pre-production approval process) whereby the manufacturer must run a statistically significant sample of parts and submit them for performance testing (or submit the data). That data is submitted to the filter buyer for acceptance.

At least, that’s how it works for us when Fleetguard tweaks a filter design or moves production from one facility to another.

 

[Zee09]

From King to Peasant in short order.
A lesson to be learned here.