Going to have to change you handle from "The Regenerator" to "The Instigator".
Fram PH-16 @ 10K KM (6K Miles)
- Thread starter StevieC
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Ouch!
I like FRAM filters very much..............for target practice.
ekpolk -
You stated in your post above....
"none of us who legitimately criticize Fram quality have ever claimed that they "all" fail. Or even that they fail routinely. Obviously, they don't fail all that often (that we know of)".
I agree with you in that respect and simply that there are BETTER built filters for the same or even less money. But, adding to what you said above - we really don't know the failure rate of Frams because while it may be rare for an obvious and disastrious failure they could be failing left and right but we never know because nobody cuts them all open. Heck, half the world using Frams may be running in bypass and/or have the cardboard caps ripping away - we just don't know because nobody cares like BITOG folks do. ANd if the engine still runs at oil change time, people assume everything is ok - but really the inside of the filter may be all tore up.
Lastly, FRAMS are like another poster stated - people use them because of past reputation or that there father used them, etc. Fram being a good filter is as much a myth as Pennzoil being a bad oil with wax and all that b-ess. All myths from back in the day.
Do I like Fram? NO. Would I use one? NO
Ekpolk is right and why will no FRAM guys reply to his simple request? Because we can prove the shoddy construction simply by opening the can. They cannot prove GOOD construction in any way except for the easy grip can and maybe the pretty color.
You stated in your post above....
"none of us who legitimately criticize Fram quality have ever claimed that they "all" fail. Or even that they fail routinely. Obviously, they don't fail all that often (that we know of)".
I agree with you in that respect and simply that there are BETTER built filters for the same or even less money. But, adding to what you said above - we really don't know the failure rate of Frams because while it may be rare for an obvious and disastrious failure they could be failing left and right but we never know because nobody cuts them all open. Heck, half the world using Frams may be running in bypass and/or have the cardboard caps ripping away - we just don't know because nobody cares like BITOG folks do. ANd if the engine still runs at oil change time, people assume everything is ok - but really the inside of the filter may be all tore up.
Lastly, FRAMS are like another poster stated - people use them because of past reputation or that there father used them, etc. Fram being a good filter is as much a myth as Pennzoil being a bad oil with wax and all that b-ess. All myths from back in the day.
Do I like Fram? NO. Would I use one? NO
Ekpolk is right and why will no FRAM guys reply to his simple request? Because we can prove the shoddy construction simply by opening the can. They cannot prove GOOD construction in any way except for the easy grip can and maybe the pretty color.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
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addyguy said:
Is the Extra Guard supposed to be run for 10k kms? When I emailed Fram a few years back and asked them questions about their cardboard endcaps, and what filter to run on my 2003 Civic with an 8k kms oci, they recommended the Extended Guard.
I don't know... But they have always been run that long on the car and there has been no issues...
They probably told you to go with an E.G. for their profitability and their protection in case of failure.
They probably told you to go with an E.G. for their profitability and their protection in case of failure.
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
Is the Extra Guard supposed to be run for 10k kms? When I emailed Fram a few years back and asked them questions about their cardboard endcaps, and what filter to run on my 2003 Civic with an 8k kms oci, they recommended the Extended Guard.
I have the Extended Guard I just put on my 01 Civic. I'm not sure how long i will keep it in there for. The box says 10K miles, i doubt i'll let it go that long.
Is the Extra Guard supposed to be run for 10k kms? When I emailed Fram a few years back and asked them questions about their cardboard endcaps, and what filter to run on my 2003 Civic with an 8k kms oci, they recommended the Extended Guard.
I have the Extended Guard I just put on my 01 Civic. I'm not sure how long i will keep it in there for. The box says 10K miles, i doubt i'll let it go that long.
IMO, that Extended Guard could go the 10k, no problema. Extended Guard is NOT the ocd.
I used to work an an autoparts store, and a guy came in with a nice porche....he was getting some supplies for an oil change, and he walked up to the counter with a fram.
I made a note not to bother people about their product choices (unless it was the wrong part), but this time I spoke up. I couldn't even finish my sentance before this guy shoots back with "Fram is the best, and your full of [censored]"...I even offered to discount a better filter for him to try, but he wasn't having any of it.
Some people are just stuck in there ways. I always wanted to put a cut open Fram filter on display in the store, but considering half our inventory was Fram stuff....don't think it would have gone over too well.
Unfortunately the wally world next to me only stocks Fram filters now, so I got one of the new 2-ply extended guards to try out of my fathers old camry. What [censored] me off to no end is the fact this extended guard costs the same amount as an M1 filter, but their still using those horrible cardboard endcaps, and the [censored] bypass design (don't even get me started on ADBV). $8+ for cardboard endcaps is too much, regardless of how good the filter media is.
I made a note not to bother people about their product choices (unless it was the wrong part), but this time I spoke up. I couldn't even finish my sentance before this guy shoots back with "Fram is the best, and your full of [censored]"...I even offered to discount a better filter for him to try, but he wasn't having any of it.
Some people are just stuck in there ways. I always wanted to put a cut open Fram filter on display in the store, but considering half our inventory was Fram stuff....don't think it would have gone over too well.
Unfortunately the wally world next to me only stocks Fram filters now, so I got one of the new 2-ply extended guards to try out of my fathers old camry. What [censored] me off to no end is the fact this extended guard costs the same amount as an M1 filter, but their still using those horrible cardboard endcaps, and the [censored] bypass design (don't even get me started on ADBV). $8+ for cardboard endcaps is too much, regardless of how good the filter media is.
Originally Posted By: pzev
\What [censored] me off to no end is the fact this extended guard costs the same amount as an M1 filter, but their still using those horrible cardboard endcaps,
The Extended Guard has metal end caps. I just cut one open last week. No card board anywhere. Take a look: (not my filter)
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1376666&fpart=3
\What [censored] me off to no end is the fact this extended guard costs the same amount as an M1 filter, but their still using those horrible cardboard endcaps,
The Extended Guard has metal end caps. I just cut one open last week. No card board anywhere. Take a look: (not my filter)
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1376666&fpart=3
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It's good that you cut it open, that's one less to cause damage to engines!
Originally Posted By: StevieC
It's good that you cut it open, that's one less to cause damage to engines!
Good one!!
It's good that you cut it open, that's one less to cause damage to engines!
Good one!!
Ya, I just posted in the other EG thread about making a mistake regarding the cardboard end caps.
Makes one wonder how much confidence Fram has in their card board units if they made the switch to steel for the "extended drain" filter. Lets not forget that 10k miles isn't that "extended" when looking at some cars.
That said, I think the steel end caps have more to do with bonding the filter media mesh effectively than to Honeywell "upgrading" the EG. I don't see how you could effectively bond three layers of filter media to a flat cardboard surface, hence their switch to steel.
Still the same bypass design...and still the same ADBV design. Though the ADBV may form a tighter seal against the steel end caps.
I will say this...I wouldn't buy the filter, but in a pinch...if I had one for some reason, I wouldn't be against putting it on my car. With regard to the tough guard and the extra guard...I would rather reinstall my old filter than use one of those, even if it was free.
Makes one wonder how much confidence Fram has in their card board units if they made the switch to steel for the "extended drain" filter. Lets not forget that 10k miles isn't that "extended" when looking at some cars.
That said, I think the steel end caps have more to do with bonding the filter media mesh effectively than to Honeywell "upgrading" the EG. I don't see how you could effectively bond three layers of filter media to a flat cardboard surface, hence their switch to steel.
Still the same bypass design...and still the same ADBV design. Though the ADBV may form a tighter seal against the steel end caps.
I will say this...I wouldn't buy the filter, but in a pinch...if I had one for some reason, I wouldn't be against putting it on my car. With regard to the tough guard and the extra guard...I would rather reinstall my old filter than use one of those, even if it was free.
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FRAM vs pipe plugs on the side of an engine is next. (I predict the pipe plugs winning a poll by a 2:1 margin) The bashing is entertainment for me, I'm always happy to see new wit hopping on the wagon!
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