Forum vote for the best fully synthetic motor oil on the market

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quote:

Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

Originally posted by Shoboost:
I`m really impressed with the German Castrol Syntec 0w-30..i`m currently using it in my 3 cars,a Ford Taurus 3.8 V6,a Taurus SHO 3.0 dohc v6,and a Cadillac Fleetwood 4.5 V8....i`m going to get UOA`s done on all 3 in the near future and will post....

I've talked a lot about the German 0w30 Castrol on here, and I really hope it's good stuff since I'm switching all my cars over to it, and my sister's car is already switched. But I didn't mention it in this thread since it's an unknown entity right now. It's specs look really good and the scuttlebutt on this oil is that it's one of Europe's best oils, but until I start seeing the UOAs, I can't really give an honest opinion on the stuff. I like the fact that it's a very thick 30wt oil, however I just hope it stays that way over the entire interval.


BMW recommends that stuff solely in the 10w60 grade for their new M3 and NOTHING ELSE. Car and Driver did a 40k test on this car and commented on how emphatic BMW is that that oil only should be used. With a 320 or so hp 3.2litre normally aspirated motor able to spin to 8000rpm, that oil has to be the best out there at least for that engine. Unfortunately, that car also consumed i believe around 9 quarts during that 40k test between oil changes. Definitely would get expensive after a while.

Jason
 
quote:

Originally posted by Alex D:
Where do you buy this Castrol 0W-30 stuff???
Where do you buy Mobil 1 0W-40???


Mobil 1 0w40 is sold at Autozone, but the 0w30 German Castrol is not sold in the US, it just arrived in Canada recently (and it's sold in Europe and other international countries too)
 
quote:

Originally posted by mebanditws6:
BMW recommends that stuff solely in the 10w60 grade for their new M3 and NOTHING ELSE. Car and Driver did a 40k test on this car and commented on how emphatic BMW is that that oil only should be used. With a 320 or so hp 3.2litre normally aspirated motor able to spin to 8000rpm, that oil has to be the best out there at least for that engine. Unfortunately, that car also consumed i believe around 9 quarts during that 40k test between oil changes. Definitely would get expensive after a while.

Jason [/QB]

If you read that article closely they used a regular 10w30 for top up. This is why they went through 9 quarts.
 
As a side note, I understand those BMWs blow engines regularly, so often that it's become quite an embarrasment, and expense, to BMW. Seems if a 60W oil is required than that's a big red flag - normally that heavy stuff is put in an engine that's on its last legs, or is in a racecar with high MTBF.
 
Actually the latest M3 model had a few engine failures in their first production year. More than in any of the past M3 models. BMW also went out of their way to fix customer's cars at theri expense wether the car was still in or already out of warranty. these first production run failures have now been worked out of the line. And, yes, BMW INSISTS on using the 10W-60 oil in their cars.

quote:

Originally posted by williar:
As a side note, I understand those BMWs blow engines regularly, so often that it's become quite an embarrasment, and expense, to BMW. Seems if a 60W oil is required than that's a big red flag - normally that heavy stuff is put in an engine that's on its last legs, or is in a racecar with high MTBF.

 
The BMW M3, for instance, requires 10W-60 Castrol Syntec.

http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm

Of minor interest, in mid 2001, BMW ordered an oil change on the M3 - the 5w30 oil which had been shipping on all cars was ordered changed to a new special BMW-only 10w60.

New cars came with the new oil, and 5w30 cars were asked to come in for a free change to 10w60. This seemed to be some kind of reaction to concerns over long term high rpm running ability, and the oil having enough high temperature capacity to hold together on such autobahn blasts.

BMW engine oil recommendations update

BMW has updated the information on engine oils for its M-vehicles from the information published in the May 2001 issue of Service Tech in a later service bulletin. Three different engines have been used in recent M-vehicles: the S62 4941 cc V-8 engine used in the M5 E39 (current 5-series) and Z8 roadster, the S52

3152 cc I-6 engine used in the M3 E36 (previous 3-series) and early M roadster and M coupe, and the S54 3246 cc I-6 engine in the M3 E46 (current 3-series) and current M roadster and M coupe.

S62 V-8 engine oil

Internal design changes were made to the S62 engine early in 2000, calling for different engine oils to be used in M5s produced up to March, 2000, and another oil for those produced from March, 2000, on. All Z8 roadsters have the later S62 engine. The only approved oil for M5s before the 03/00 break date is Castrol Formula RS SAE 10W60 synthetic oil. This oil has been specially developed and formulated for BMW Motorsport. Do not use any other engine oil in this S62 engine.

The Castrol oil also should be used when topping up between oil changes. If it is not available for topping up, use small amounts of synthetic engine oil meeting the API specification SH. BMW advises that oil consumption will increase slightly when the Castrol SAE 10W-60 synthetic oil is diluted with other low-viscosity synthetic oils. Castrol Formula RS SAE 10W60 synthetic oil can be ordered in 1-L bottles cans under BMW part number 07-510-009-420.

A lower viscosity synthetic oil meeting API service classification SH or higher should be used only when topping up oil level when Castrol Formula RS SAE 10W60 is not available. For M5s built from 03/00 on and all Z8s, the recommended oil is BMW

High-Performance Synthetic Oil SAE 5W-30, available in one-quart bottles under part number 07-51-0-017-866.

S52 I-6 engine oil

The recommended engine oils for the S52 3152 cc I-6 engine are BMW High-Performance Mineral Base Oil SAE 15W-40, part number 07-51-0-017-868 or part number 07-51-0-017-866, as mentioned above for the later S62 V-8 engine.

S54 I-6 engine oil

The recommended engine oil for the S54 3246 cc I-6 engine is BMW High-Performance Synthetic Oil SAE 5W-30, part number 07-51-0-017-866, as mentioned above for the later S62 V-8 engine.

Engine oil level check procedures

To further complicate maintenance, the engine oil level checking procedure is different on the S62 V-8 compared to the S52 and S54 I-6s. All vehicles should be on level ground when checking the oil level. Since oil consumption tends to greater on M-vehicle engines, BMW suggests checking oil level at every refueling stop. The distance between the full and low marks on the dipstick on these engines is 1.1 qt (1 L).

S62 engine oil level check

With the S62 engine at normal operating temperature, let the engine idle for 15 seconds, then turn it off. Wait at least 1 min for the oil to drain down into the sump before checking the level with the dipstick.

S52 and S54 engine oil level check

With the S52 or S54 engine at normal operating temperature, and turned off, wait about 5 min for the oil to drain down into the sump before checking the level with the dipstick. In summary, most M-vehicle engines now use the same engine oil: BMW High-Performance Synthetic Oil SAE 5W-30. The V-8 and I-6 M-vehicle engines use different oil level checking procedures.
 
quote:

For example, if you plan on changing oil every 3000-5000 miles, I'd generally recommend Mobil 1, 5w-30 or 10w-30,

I'm convinced Mobil 1 is the best oil you can buy based on all the analysis I've seen on this board. Slick, your absolutely wrong when talking about Mobil 1's longer drain capabilities. The results I've seen at long drains are better then Amsoils. I have seen no evidence that Redline or Amsoil are better oils. Some of the best analysis reports are with Mobil 1. The 10k mile Audi report, or even the Turbo Volvo that Terry said was the best he has ever seen in this engine. Specs don't mean as much as one would think and NOAK differences of 2-3% make no difference IMO. I think we put too much emphasis on specs. Amsoil also lacks Moly and because they buy there materials from various suppliers, I feel they have quality inconsistancies with there oil. JMO>
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[ April 10, 2003, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
So, since I did not care to answer the question as stated, I automatically answered a related question which was more to my liking.


Uh Huh! Deny the original premise or the implied basis and answer with another premise.

Spoken like a true philosopher!
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[ April 10, 2003, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by buster:

quote:

For example, if you plan on changing oil every 3000-5000 miles, I'd generally recommend Mobil 1, 5w-30 or 10w-30,

Amsoil also lacks Moly and because they buy there materials from various suppliers, I feel they have quality inconsistancies with there oil. JMO>
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I disagree. Amsoil's UOA's here have shown that moly isn't needed with the high levels of other additives. As far as being overrated, yes it is, but so are the other synthetics. All of the manufacturers tell you their synthetic oil is better and why. I think Mobil 1 is the most over-rated due to the fact that it's a big name (kinda like Fram) and available almost everywhere. I also feel that synthetics in general are over-rated if you still choose the 3 moth / 3k mile drain intervals.

Amsoil - 25,000 mile / 1 year drain intervals.

It is possible, but only under the right conditions. In the real world you'll be lucky to have it get past 20,000 miles. They will warranty against any damage done by their oil or as a result of following their recommendations. (for what it's worth)

Mobil 1 - "Nothing beats Mobil 1"

This is a pretty bold statement, also a very vague statement. Once again, the marketing departments are hard at work. Once again, a good oil, but maybe not as good as they would have you think it is. No warranty & follow the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations.

Red Line - "Most modern lubricants work for their intended application. Few engines, transmissions, and differentials fail in normal low-mileage automotive service due to lubricant related causes. But most automotive lubricants are made for normal automotive service, not 150+ MPH or endurance racing."

This makes it sound like we all drive mach-3 to work every morning. On top of that, when was the last time you saw a race car go 10,000k+ miles without an oil change? When was the last time a NASCAR team ran 200k miles on a car without a rebuild? What does racing have to do with my Ford F-150 4x4?
Once again, good oil, bad marketing department.

Now that I have all this off my chest, I'll have to agree with the others - it depends on the application. I would run Mobil 1 (if I didn't run Amsoil) in my truck, but I'd never put their m/c oil in my Harley.
My harley's transmission with either get Schaeffers or RedLine Supershock gear lube. The primary drive case will be getting Amsoil's 10w-30 m/c oil.

Imagine if we could take the good points of every oil & make one great oil
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Imagine if we coul
 
I think "best" can be taken more ways than one. What's the best for the average daily driver may not be the best for the guy that races his car on the weekend. For really hard driven cars (street/race or almost pure race) I'd go with Redline (just look at the AW additives in it!). For most everything else I'd use Amsoil with Mobil 1 a close second with it's price and convenience.
 
I have seen it on here several times about the German Castrol not being sold in the United States. This is incorrect. The German made Castrol 0W-30 IS sold in the U.S. I bought 12 quarts of it from Autozone two weeks ago ($4.99/qt). I am in Georgia so it has made it this far south.
 
quote:

Originally posted by FowVay:
I have seen it on here several times about the German Castrol not being sold in the United States. This is incorrect. The German made Castrol 0W-30 IS sold in the U.S. I bought 12 quarts of it from Autozone two weeks ago ($4.99/qt). I am in Georgia so it has made it this far south.

What part of GA? The Autozone in Savannah only carries the Mobil 0-30, not the Castrol. -Joe
 
quote:

Originally posted by FowVay:
I have seen it on here several times about the German Castrol not being sold in the United States. This is incorrect. The German made Castrol 0W-30 IS sold in the U.S. I bought 12 quarts of it from Autozone two weeks ago ($4.99/qt). I am in Georgia so it has made it this far south.

That's excellent news! Although now you guys don't have an excuse to come up here and visit me anymore.
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Patman,
I agree, they all have there marketing strategies and some are better then others, but I don't see emperically where Amsoil is better then Mobil 1. Amsoil buys from multiple suppliers, exxonmobil being one of them and it just seems like there are quality gaps with there oils. S3000 is phenomenal oil, but there S2000 thickens out of grade quite frequently. I also don't think Amsoil 5w/10w-30 are better then Mobil's 30wts. Molekule, I believe had Mobil 1 out perform Amsoil in his car. Does this make it better? No of course not, but if people think a NOAK of 5% will do that much more then %8 or a HT/HS of 3.5 vs 3.2, I have to disagree. The bottom line is all are great, and some are better in certain engines then others, but RARELY IF EVER, have I seen Amsoil results that I would consider to be exceptional at longer drains. IMO, the only reason Amsoil is still in business is because many of there customers get suckered into this 25k mile idea. I work with a guy who runs Amsoil and because the bottle says that, he buys it. Your right about the Moly not being Amsoil not being a problem bc they load up with other additives. I've gone back and forth many times on which is better but after really looking at the UOA section and taking the time to compare the oils, I just don't see where any of them out perform M1. JMO>
 
quote:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
I would have to choose Redline for first place... excellent additive package, and a high ratio of multi polyol esters to PAO's.

Yup, I'm a RedLine nut totally.
I'm not sure how Royal Purple and NEO and a few others would stack up against the likes of RedLine, Amsoil, and Mobil 1; I've heard that they are 'cut from the same cloth' but haven't read anything that is independant and conclusive.
I'll keep looking...on THIS great site, of course!
 
Even though I don't believe that there is a best "anything", I'll vote for my own synthetic which is definitely the best.
1 quart this plus 1 qt that plus 1 qt neither and 1 qt something else + 1 qt of whatever is missing and shake well.

OK, the name brand and boutique synths are the best. I'll stick with Amsoil for the front/rear gears. Mobil1 for the engine. Redline for the manual transmissions. Neo for transfercases. Either A/RL/M1 for the PS reservoir and ATF.
And, for grease, I'll use something different at each wheel bearing, door/hood/trunk/sunroof/seatbelt hinges or tracks, and driveshaft Ujoints.
For CVs, I guess that Neo is one of the few synthetic CV lubes. And, because Moly rules, blend in some Schaeffers everywhere!
 
Since your annual mileage per vehicle is not mentioned, I would suggest for these 4 specific applications that either Amsoil 100% synthetic 10W-30 AMT or the 5W-30 ASL for up to 25K miles in one year change intervals would do just fine. You might just buy it on sale at a retail level and get the price down a bit, or become a pref customer and buy enough for a couple years.

Unlikely you would find yourself underlubricated in the applications you specified. IMHO
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Patman..your right about the castrol being thick for a 30 weight...the thing that impressed me right off the bat was how it quieted down that 3.8 Ford V6 immediately,these engines are noisy by nature...i never expected a 0w-30 weight oil would do this...
 
Uh Huh! Deny the original premise or the implied basis and answer with another premise.

Spoken like a true philosopher!


I submit: spoken like a true dissembler.
 
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