formula for an epic fail

[lyle]

over 3" of snow/ice + young idiots with lowered civic/accord/corolla/generic small car with wide low profile rubber = me laughing till I puke Criminy guys, it's only a measly 3-4 inches of snow, I know you're not Einstein, but are you really that clueless about physics? Driving too fast for the conditions almost guarantees a sudden lesson in friction dynamics. If you insist on being that stupid, then I insist on laughing until it hurts. When you spin out or put your car in the ditch, I hope you only defecated a little bit in your pants (which for some reason don't seem to be able to stay up). That way your passengers are spared the embarrassment of a Cottonelle moment. I bought Cooper Weathermaster WSC winter rubber for my Flex this year. Yesterday they were baptized in snow, ice, and slush and I am really pleased with the way they feel and how they handled the slop. I was out almost all day and never felt overwhelmed. I think I felt the traction control kick-in only a few times, but that was on purpose as I wanted to experiment with the torque I have at low rpm's. These will serve me well for many winters to come. They are a good winter tire for a reasonable price.

 

[UG_Passat]

the funniest are WRX, STI & Evo owners with summer tires in the snow

 

[sciphi]

Some folks are that clueless. It's funny to watch the cluelessness, as long as it's not impacting you. There's no easy way to get clueless off once it hits...

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat

the funniest are WRX, STI & Evo owners with summer tires in the snow

Even with all-season tires, we're just too wide. A lot of my brethren, like me, have opted for narrower, one-inch smaller rims with snow tires as our dedicated winter setup. This will be my first year running snow tires and I'm pretty excited about it. In all honesty, my STI last winter, with LSD's all around was worse in the snow than my old '97 Legacy with a far inferior AWD system. If I wasn't careful, I'd easily spin all four tires in the STI.

 

[Chris142]

I moved from SoCal to Ohio in 1996. I had my 4x4 Dodge Ramcharger that was lifted and on 33's. Being from SoCal I was not used to snow driving. I was driving to work in about 8 inches of snow and going about 25mph on a 2 lane road because I could feel the truck losing traction. This was the fastest I was comfortable with. 3 cars came up behind me. One decided to pass and when he went to pull in ahead of me he just kept sliding, did a 360 then into a field he went. The next car got up beside me and slid off to the left into that field. The 3rd car decided to just stay behind me and the 2 of us made it to the hwy.

 

[leeharvey418]

Chris142 - I'm guessing those 33" tires had mud tread on them. Mud tread with no siping is next to useless in snow.

 

[Rand]

I had 285/75R16's on my ranger it was ok in a straight line in the snow. Turning was an issue as there was no center diff.. so the wheels would either try to bind or plow in a turn. Never got stuck but my focus with winter tires was superior to drive in snow/ice on the highway. Now for deep snow or offroad.. the ranger was fun. Sometimes there is just no replacement for ground clearance. I had to stay home a couple days last year as my road had 1-3ft high ruts in heavy snow. I wasnt going to rip my bumper off to go work... I'm hoping they plow my street better now that they totally redid my road (new foundation, etc) Back on topic.. I also live in ohio.. and its amazing how the stupid seems to come out first snowfall every year. OMG ITS THE SNOWS WHAT DO I DO???? OH WAIT I HAVE ZEE AWD I CAN GO 75 IN A BLIZZARD!!!

 

[Bror Jace]

I was in Rochester many years ago and this van with no positraction and bald tires sailed past me on snow-slicked city streets. The little voice in my head told me to give him a LOT of room. He went one intersection then hit two cars stopped at the next light. I slowed ... and three more cars got in fender benders right behind me. I gingerly maneuvered my snow-tire shod Integra around all of them and continued on my way letting all 6 of those folks sort things out. "Sometimes there is just no replacement for ground clearance." I think the very best car in the snow I ever had was my '95 Civic with four Nokian NR10 snow tires on it. The only thing that could slow that car down was snow 10"+ deep as the front air dam would begin plowing the snow and lifting the front of the car up so that I would lose traction.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace

I was in Rochester many years ago and this van with no positraction and bald tires sailed past me on snow-slicked city streets. The little voice in my head told me to give him a LOT of room. He went one intersection then hit two cars stopped at the next light. I slowed ... and three more cars got in fender benders right behind me. I gingerly maneuvered my snow-tire shod Integra around all of them and continued on my way letting all 6 of those folks sort things out. "Sometimes there is just no replacement for ground clearance." I think the very best car in the snow I ever had was my '95 Civic with four Nokian NR10 snow tires on it. The only thing that could slow that car down was snow 10"+ deep as the front air dam would begin plowing the snow and lifting the front of the car up so that I would lose traction.

I went to a winter rally-cross a couple of years ago and was really surprised to see that a late-90's Integra and a Neon were mauling the competition; the competition being Jeeps, STI and other Subies. Not surprising was seeing some of the Subies trying to win by applying as much throttle as possible, at all times.

 

[Loobed]

I don't think it is funny because when they lose control they hit something - me.

 

[Klutch9]

Originally Posted By: Loobed

I don't think it is funny because when they lose control they hit something - me.

That's the first thing I think of when I see people with all 4 tires bald, winter or not. If you can't/won't keep your car safe to yourself and other drivers, get off the road. That's one reason I wish Michigan had yearly vehicle inspections.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool

In all honesty, my STI last winter, with LSD's all around was worse in the snow than my old '97 Legacy with a far inferior AWD system. If I wasn't careful, I'd easily spin all four tires in the STI.

LSD's aren't necessarily good for snow, but it depends on how tight they are set up. Add a stiff suspension, a lot of power, three tight diffs and stock tires will not get you anywhere fast, but with some dedicated snow tires, it should do okay. The smaller wheels with taller sidewalls should help make the suspension a bit more complaint, helping traction. My stock '01 Impreza RS has a not-very-tight LSD in the rear, a loose-ish viscus diff in the center, and an open diff in the front. With dedicated snows, my car was fantastic during NY winters, and I owe that to not having a lot of power, having a lot of grip, and not having the diffs fighting the tires.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace

"Sometimes there is just no replacement for ground clearance."

Or common sense. Too many dummies on the roads here around DC when it snows.

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: leeharvey418

Chris142 - I'm guessing those 33" tires had mud tread on them. Mud tread with no siping is next to useless in snow.

They were BFG TA's.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder

Originally Posted By: gathermewool

In all honesty, my STI last winter, with LSD's all around was worse in the snow than my old '97 Legacy with a far inferior AWD system. If I wasn't careful, I'd easily spin all four tires in the STI.

LSD's aren't necessarily good for snow, but it depends on how tight they are set up. Add a stiff suspension, a lot of power, three tight diffs and stock tires will not get you anywhere fast, but with some dedicated snow tires, it should do okay. The smaller wheels with taller sidewalls should help make the suspension a bit more complaint, helping traction. My stock '01 Impreza RS has a not-very-tight LSD in the rear, a loose-ish viscus diff in the center, and an open diff in the front. With dedicated snows, my car was fantastic during NY winters, and I owe that to not having a lot of power, having a lot of grip, and not having the diffs fighting the tires.

You're absolutely correct that tire tread compound and shape have a lot more to do with it than LSD's, which was kind of my point. My point was more toward the power aspect than the differentials, though. Even if all four wheels were locked synchonously, going ahead in a straight line on an improper set of tires in cold, slick conditions would only result in all four tires spinning. Having power to only one wheel with traction would be better in this case. Not only do I have the LSD's, but also Vehicle Dynamics Control, which actuates individual brakes as a part of the traction/stability control system. I can also defeat the engine-bogging traction control, but leave the VDC on to help me maintain traction. This doesn't help much when all four tires have the same low traction, especially when my foot is mashing the go pedal. It's fun in controlled settings, but not safe for those who think AWD means mash the pedal and go, nor for those who think that tires are tires when it comes to winter driving. Furthermore, having some common sense goes a long way. I've been in situation where others simply lock it up and begin to slide sideways - I saw this a lot while driving to St. Louis a few years back during an ice storm. I maintained a very slight amount of throttle and nearly peed myself as the AWD and VDC worked their magic to get me out of danger. I had just purchased a new set of all-season tires before the trip, and was kicking myself for not going for a dedicated winter setup.