If we are talking about a standard port injected naturally aspirated engine, I would not have a problem running conventional for a shorter interval. And keeping the grade within 1 step will be OK, but keep in mind the anticipated temperatures and usage. I would not go from 0w20 to 5w30 if you are entering a Boston winter season. But that's just me.
Forget about warranty for this question
- Thread starter CharBaby
- Start date
My friend manages a quick oil lube and he tells me they fill many cars every day that spec 0W-20 with semi-synthetic 5W-20 because it's their cheapest price point oil at $37.00 OTD and he says the customers could care less most just want the least expensive service they can get.
My friend has a vehicle that only listed 0w20 in the (USA) owners manual as recommended oil grade. But then I found owner manuals for that vehicle from other countries, and in every other country that I saw, whether it was milder or harsher climate, the recommended oil grade was directly proportional to the temperature and use. That same exact engine had oil grades from 0w20 to 20w50 listed as acceptable, depending on driving conditions and climate. So that vehicle has been running 5w30 since new without any issues, going on 150k miles last time I saw it. So I'd say look at a bigger picture and let that help you choose a suitable oil grade for your driving conditions and climate.
P.S. This chart is quite beneficial.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/05/full-72491-44490-viscosity_chart_png_.png "[Linked Image]")
P.S. This chart is quite beneficial.
Originally Posted by Vladiator
P.S. This chart is quite beneficial.[/font]
Beneficial to whom?
Should I use it as an application guide for a Mercedes S63 or for a Troybilt snow blower?
P.S. This chart is quite beneficial.[/font]
Beneficial to whom?
Should I use it as an application guide for a Mercedes S63 or for a Troybilt snow blower?
Originally Posted by Imp4
Beneficial to whom?
Should I use it as an application guide for a Mercedes S63 or for a Troybilt snow blower?
It's beneficial as far as climate goes, climate as in temperature. So as I stated in my previous post: "look at a bigger picture and let that help you choose a suitable oil grade for your driving conditions and climate." So logical next step would be to look at the driving conditions. And based on driving conditions plus climate/temperature choose an oil grade that best suits the needs of the engine in question.
Beneficial to whom?
Should I use it as an application guide for a Mercedes S63 or for a Troybilt snow blower?
It's beneficial as far as climate goes, climate as in temperature. So as I stated in my previous post: "look at a bigger picture and let that help you choose a suitable oil grade for your driving conditions and climate." So logical next step would be to look at the driving conditions. And based on driving conditions plus climate/temperature choose an oil grade that best suits the needs of the engine in question.
So should I use this illustration for both an S63 and a Troybilt snowblower?
Originally Posted by Imp4
So should I use this illustration for both an S63 and a Troybilt snowblower?
How many S63's do you have? Maybe you should have gotten a Mercedes-Maybach S 650 Sedan, 6 liter V12 biturbo engine! That car still calls for MB 229.5.
So should I use this illustration for both an S63 and a Troybilt snowblower?
How many S63's do you have? Maybe you should have gotten a Mercedes-Maybach S 650 Sedan, 6 liter V12 biturbo engine! That car still calls for MB 229.5.
Originally Posted by Imp4
So should I use this illustration for both an S63 and a Troybilt snowblower?
I would. But whether YOU should or shouldn't is up to you to decide.
So should I use this illustration for both an S63 and a Troybilt snowblower?
I would. But whether YOU should or shouldn't is up to you to decide.
Originally Posted by Char Baby
This has been a question that has haunted me since there are so many newer vehicles/engines that require the 0W20 and NOTHING ELSE.
I don't think any owner's manual uses the word "required" or "requires", because every engine in the world will work fine with a spectrum of different oil viscosities, based on vehicle use environment.
Keep in mind that the same engines used in different countries without CAFE show a range of recommended oil viscosities. There have been many threads about that.
This has been a question that has haunted me since there are so many newer vehicles/engines that require the 0W20 and NOTHING ELSE.
I don't think any owner's manual uses the word "required" or "requires", because every engine in the world will work fine with a spectrum of different oil viscosities, based on vehicle use environment.
Keep in mind that the same engines used in different countries without CAFE show a range of recommended oil viscosities. There have been many threads about that.
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
A lot of these newer small car engines have gone to variable valve timing (VVT) to provide improved fuel efficiency and better engine response.
Most I know of (I have two such engines), are very specific to oil viscosity and type (synthetic or other) because of the VVT. Not to mention running the engines hotter.
This is because the VVT system uses engine oil as a hydraulic oil to actuate the valve timing cam phaser mechanism. Using engine oil as a hydraulic oil is problematic as we know from Navistar's HEUI injection engines.
Engine oil gets dirty from byproducts of combustion blowby past the piston rings. High VII additized oils shear down and create deposits that can stick and interfere with the VVT operating valves. Incorrect viscosity won't actuate the mechanism properly.
I don't recommend using up non-recommended oils in such an engine. I'd advise checking to see if your engine does have an oil-actuated VVT system 1st. If it does, don't do it. These are expensive to repair.
The VVT won't care if it's 0W-20 or 5W-20. They are both 20 weight at 200 F operating temperature.
The same engines with VVT used in other countries (with no CAFE) specifying a range of recommended oil viscosity don't have VVT issues.
A lot of these newer small car engines have gone to variable valve timing (VVT) to provide improved fuel efficiency and better engine response.
Most I know of (I have two such engines), are very specific to oil viscosity and type (synthetic or other) because of the VVT. Not to mention running the engines hotter.
This is because the VVT system uses engine oil as a hydraulic oil to actuate the valve timing cam phaser mechanism. Using engine oil as a hydraulic oil is problematic as we know from Navistar's HEUI injection engines.
Engine oil gets dirty from byproducts of combustion blowby past the piston rings. High VII additized oils shear down and create deposits that can stick and interfere with the VVT operating valves. Incorrect viscosity won't actuate the mechanism properly.
I don't recommend using up non-recommended oils in such an engine. I'd advise checking to see if your engine does have an oil-actuated VVT system 1st. If it does, don't do it. These are expensive to repair.
The VVT won't care if it's 0W-20 or 5W-20. They are both 20 weight at 200 F operating temperature.
The same engines with VVT used in other countries (with no CAFE) specifying a range of recommended oil viscosity don't have VVT issues.
Originally Posted by Char Baby
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
You can always check what the manufacturer sets as the requirement for that same engine in different markets. Assuming warranty is tossed out the window and you are in the US, check and see what that same engine calls for in Australia or England and what the OCI requirements are there.
Yes thank you.
However I just want to reiterate that it isn't just 5w20/5w30 that I want to use up(I already used eith success, a full synthetic 5w20 in the Civic), I want to use up 5w20/5w30 DINO...A.K.A. synblend.
Like you already mentioned, just make the OCI match the oil used. Shorter OCI for dino - like 3000 to 5000 miles if you're paranoid. Today's dino is way better than it was 20 years ago.
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
You can always check what the manufacturer sets as the requirement for that same engine in different markets. Assuming warranty is tossed out the window and you are in the US, check and see what that same engine calls for in Australia or England and what the OCI requirements are there.
Yes thank you.
However I just want to reiterate that it isn't just 5w20/5w30 that I want to use up(I already used eith success, a full synthetic 5w20 in the Civic), I want to use up 5w20/5w30 DINO...A.K.A. synblend.
Like you already mentioned, just make the OCI match the oil used. Shorter OCI for dino - like 3000 to 5000 miles if you're paranoid. Today's dino is way better than it was 20 years ago.
Originally Posted by Char Baby
and PLEASE focus on the question itself. And no other questions about..."why would anyone want to do this"? or "what are you NUTS"? etc.
If an engine & owner's manual require ONLY 0W20 motor oil and no other optional oil grades listed in the OM, will using a 5W20 or 5W30 conventional(which are actually a synblend), hurt the engine for the occasional OCI?
OK, maybe don't run this OCI on dino 5W20 or 5W30 for the full length synthetic OCI(6k-8k miles) but maybe for 3k-4k miles?
This has been a question that has haunted me since there are so many newer vehicles/engines that require the 0W20 and NOTHING ELSE.
Thanks,
CB
No, you'll have no problem. As others already mentioned in other parts of the world the owner is often given a choice of what oil to use based on climate and driving conditions. Check online owner's manuals for the vehicle in question in other parts of the world.
and PLEASE focus on the question itself. And no other questions about..."why would anyone want to do this"? or "what are you NUTS"? etc.
If an engine & owner's manual require ONLY 0W20 motor oil and no other optional oil grades listed in the OM, will using a 5W20 or 5W30 conventional(which are actually a synblend), hurt the engine for the occasional OCI?
OK, maybe don't run this OCI on dino 5W20 or 5W30 for the full length synthetic OCI(6k-8k miles) but maybe for 3k-4k miles?
This has been a question that has haunted me since there are so many newer vehicles/engines that require the 0W20 and NOTHING ELSE.
Thanks,
CB
No, you'll have no problem. As others already mentioned in other parts of the world the owner is often given a choice of what oil to use based on climate and driving conditions. Check online owner's manuals for the vehicle in question in other parts of the world.
Originally Posted by Char Baby
and PLEASE focus on the question itself. And no other questions about..."why would anyone want to do this"? or "what are you NUTS"? etc.
If an engine & owner's manual require ONLY 0W20 motor oil and no other optional oil grades listed in the OM, will using a 5W20 or 5W30 conventional(which are actually a synblend), hurt the engine for the occasional OCI?
OK, maybe don't run this OCI on dino 5W20 or 5W30 for the full length synthetic OCI(6k-8k miles) but maybe for 3k-4k miles?
This has been a question that has haunted me since there are so many newer vehicles/engines that require the 0W20 and NOTHING ELSE.
Thanks,
CB
You live upstate NY, quite cold up there in the winter! Im from Long Island but moved south.
Both my vehicles call for 5/20 and nothing else. I use 5/30, Im in a warmer climate for sure. With that said my wifes Mazda does say 5/30 can be used outside the USA.
Its all about the EPA.
Now, again, with that said, you got some darn cold winter driving up there. I most likely may choose the 5/20 for the winter. Its all up to you, it wont matter and with what you are doing Orr thinking of doing, you engine will outlast the vehicle.
and PLEASE focus on the question itself. And no other questions about..."why would anyone want to do this"? or "what are you NUTS"? etc.
If an engine & owner's manual require ONLY 0W20 motor oil and no other optional oil grades listed in the OM, will using a 5W20 or 5W30 conventional(which are actually a synblend), hurt the engine for the occasional OCI?
OK, maybe don't run this OCI on dino 5W20 or 5W30 for the full length synthetic OCI(6k-8k miles) but maybe for 3k-4k miles?
This has been a question that has haunted me since there are so many newer vehicles/engines that require the 0W20 and NOTHING ELSE.
Thanks,
CB
You live upstate NY, quite cold up there in the winter! Im from Long Island but moved south.
Both my vehicles call for 5/20 and nothing else. I use 5/30, Im in a warmer climate for sure. With that said my wifes Mazda does say 5/30 can be used outside the USA.
Its all about the EPA.
Now, again, with that said, you got some darn cold winter driving up there. I most likely may choose the 5/20 for the winter. Its all up to you, it wont matter and with what you are doing Orr thinking of doing, you engine will outlast the vehicle.
The 2.7 in my Tacoma is one of those "only 0w-20" engines. I don't use conventional in any of my engines, and I believe the reason for the "only" is to ensure you use synthetic, but I've used synthetic 5w-20 in it numerous times when that's what was on the shelf.
Straight out of my 2018 Subaru Crosstrek's owners manual: "0W-20 synthetic oil is the required oil for optimum engine performance and protection. Conventional oil may be used if synthetic oil is unavailable. *: If 0W-20 synthetic oil is not available, 5W-30 conventional oil may be used if replenishment is needed but should be changed to 0W-20 synthetic oil at the next oil change."
The term "optimum" softens the term "required". Also, they state that "5W-30 conventional oil may be used". WELL, what about 5W-30 full synthetic? IMHO this whole statement is kinda toothless.
FWIW here's how I view this whole controversy of deviating from OEM specifications/recommendations. For one, 0W-20 will address what the CAFE folks would like to see.. Secondly, specifying/recommending 0W-20 addresses a broader range of climate conditions as opposed to specifying 5W-30 for Miami folks all the way to 0W-20 for Fairbanks AK residents. OEMs feel that 0W-20 most closely meets all the needs across the climate spectrum without having to get specific with regard to geographic region.
BTW last week I filled my Crosstrek (GDI engine) for the first time with Valvoline Modern Engine 5W30 (EXPENSIVE!). I started out using 0W20, then went to 0W-30, then 5W-20. The engine hasn't blown yet in 36K miles! I maintain an OCI of 3K to 4K miles or 6 months if I haven't achieved 3K miles since 90% of my driving is stop and go.
The term "optimum" softens the term "required". Also, they state that "5W-30 conventional oil may be used". WELL, what about 5W-30 full synthetic? IMHO this whole statement is kinda toothless.
FWIW here's how I view this whole controversy of deviating from OEM specifications/recommendations. For one, 0W-20 will address what the CAFE folks would like to see.. Secondly, specifying/recommending 0W-20 addresses a broader range of climate conditions as opposed to specifying 5W-30 for Miami folks all the way to 0W-20 for Fairbanks AK residents. OEMs feel that 0W-20 most closely meets all the needs across the climate spectrum without having to get specific with regard to geographic region.
BTW last week I filled my Crosstrek (GDI engine) for the first time with Valvoline Modern Engine 5W30 (EXPENSIVE!). I started out using 0W20, then went to 0W-30, then 5W-20. The engine hasn't blown yet in 36K miles! I maintain an OCI of 3K to 4K miles or 6 months if I haven't achieved 3K miles since 90% of my driving is stop and go.
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My old Focus 2.0L Zetec called for WSS-M2C153H 5W-20 which was at least a GII+ Conventional changed every 5,000 mi. I used M1 AFE 0W-20 every 10,000 mi. I would have zero issue with doing the reverse.
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