Ford's use of 5w-20 going bye bye?

[volk06]

So Ford is really pushing the ecoboost engines in almost all of the line up of vehicles in the next few years. My 3.5L ecoboost OM states to use 5w30, I just looked in the explorer OM for the 2.0L ecoboost, also says to use 5w30. ? Just seems they pushed so hard to make 5w-20 the standard but in the turbo charged engines 5w30 seems to be the way their going. Since Ford will be using these engines in almost every vehicle, next fusion, escape, taurus, F150, Flex, Edge, do you think ford will be going back to 5w30 and not using 5w-20 as much anymore?

 

[apwillard1986]

Perhaps... at least until CAFE tightens up further...

 

[bdcardinal]

They are using 5w30 in the EB motors, 5w50 in the Shelby and Boss motors, but 5w20 in the rest of the gas lineup.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
They are using 5w30 in the EB motors, 5w50 in the Shelby and Boss motors, but 5w20 in the rest of the gas lineup.


Yes I understand that but Ford said that ecoboost engines will be used in 90% of their vehicle line ups, meaning that all of those will be using 5w30, which would mean 5w30 would be used more than 5w-20.

 

[hardcore302]

turbos are 30 weight, na's are 20, and hi-po are 50. simple.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302
turbos are 30 weight, na's are 20, and hi-po are 50. simple.


I'm not arguing that fact. What I'm saying is that with the ecoboosts becoming the standard engines in the next few years we might see a great decrease in ford specing 5w-20 for vehicles. Simple

 

[mechanicx]

Yeah Ford should just switch to 5w30 and dexcool across the board like GM. No real need for a complicated oil and coolant usage mix.

 

[MNgopher]

I think you may be confusing things a little - while ecoboosts may be used on 90% of the lineup, I'm guessing that doesn't mean that 90% of vehicles sold will be ecoboosts.

Thus the 20 weight for na's, 30 for the turbos, etc... is right on line.

 

[Smoky14]

If 5-20 was the end all be all for the automotive world, why not use it for the Eco-boost.
It seems to me that 5-20 must provide "adequate" lubrication at best and they are not willing to trust it in HPO engines. I wonder what the down side would be to running 5-30 in engines calling for 5-20 besides the fuel economy hit which should be minimal.

 

[demarpaint]

Pretty simple use 5W30 for an Ecoboost engine. The Ecoboost is a different design engine calling for a different grade oil, Ford is specing what is best for that engine. If 5W50, or 5W40 was better they'd spec that, same goes for 5W20. Yes if Ford changes their line up to all Ecoboost engines then they'll be using 5W30 oil. Chrysler is using the Pentastar in more vehicles, and that engine calles for 5W30 as well. The mfg knows what oil to use, and if they spec 5W20 or 5W50 that's what the engine should be using.

 

[Robenstein]

Yeah as a former ford master salesman I can tell you that last year Ford Corporate said that 90 percent of Ford's lineup would have an Ecoboost OPTION. Like in the F150, the Flex, and the Taurus it will be an option in some of the packages within the model, but not across the board. You will no doubt see 5w20 continue in the naturally aspirated economy and some mid level packages in the Fusion, Edge, Flex..ect. Even the naturally aspirated 3.7 V6 is a decent power maker and in the Mustang still gives very good fuel economy.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Smoky14
If 5-20 was the end all be all for the automotive world, why not use it for the Eco-boost.
It seems to me that 5-20 must provide "adequate" lubrication at best and they are not willing to trust it in HPO engines. I wonder what the down side would be to running 5-30 in engines calling for 5-20 besides the fuel economy hit which should be minimal.


you're setting up a complete straw-man argument. No one ever said 5W20 was the "be all end all", just that it was an appropriate lubricant. Turbo engines (and some high output engines) see higher oil temperatures, and since viscosity is directly related to temperature they necessitate a thicker oil. This has absolutely nothing to do with a 5W20 "not protecting" well enough in situations which call for it:

To your question, one potential downside to running a 5W30 in an engine calling for 5W20 is increased wear. The thicker oil causes more friction (and hence more wear) at the valve-stem seals, more pressure at all of the oil seals (cam seals, main seal, etc), and has lower film strength at the top of the piston (yes, thicker oil has demonstrably less film strength at the top of the piston stroke). It also provides less cooling to the engine and requires more force from the oil pump.

Do I think 5W30 will "ruin your engine"? No, I don't. However, it may leak a little sooner, and it may begin consuming oil a little more quickly, particularly if one's driving habits are typical and the car is often driven with oil which isn't fully up to temperature. In short, I see potential downsides, but no real benefit.

 

[itguy08]

As an owner of one of the 1st generation EB 3.5s that uses 5w20, I'll add my $0.02....

From what I've seen on shoforum.com and fordflex.net (the first 2 cars to get the EB) the only reason Ford went to 5w30 on the EB's was due to the F150.

One interesting thread is here:
http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=111575&highlight=5w30

Since the F150 got an updated cam phasers the decision was made to specify 5w30 for all new Ecoboosts. It had nothing to do with durability or the turbos. The turbos are both water and oil cooled so there is plenty of safety there.

For now I just let the dealer worry about it since the car is still under warranty. And I'm sure I'll get a long life out of my EB engine.

 

[Gene K]

Actually it has nothing to do with Turbos and everything to do with Direct Injection and the possible fuel dilution. Ford increased grade to allow adequate viscosity with higher levels of fuel in the oil.

The design on the 5.0L does not use oil pressure to operate the phasers only to lock them in place. It still uses 5W20 (Excepting the Boss) since it is not DI. The engine operates just fine on everything from 20 weight to 50 weight although the later is definitely preferred with 300F Sump Temps at the track.

 

[Robenstein]

I wish that they would come out with a 5.0 Ecoboost. That would be gloriously fun to drive.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I wish that they would come out with a 5.0 Ecoboost. That would be gloriously fun to drive.

wonder how/to who they would market that; the whole marketing scheme is based around 'the power of a V8 w/ the mileage of a V6" so what would you say about a twin turbo V8???

"all the ridiculous power of a twin turbo V8 with the um, economy of a...hmmm, um, a V8?"

 

[Robenstein]

Well they could market it as a true pony car. I mean if done right it would have the power of a V10. Heck it would also make a really good motor for something like the f150 Raptor that has its own engine the 6.2.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Gene K
Actually it has nothing to do with Turbos and everything to do with Direct Injection and the possible fuel dilution. Ford increased grade to allow adequate viscosity with higher levels of fuel in the oil.


I'm not buying that - if that were the reason they would have adjusted the specs for those of us with the 2010 EB 3.5's. That is not the case - there is no TSB or anything saying 5w30 is OK in the 2010 Ecoboosts.

They did tweak the design of the F150's 3.5 EB for RWD and the truck application. I don't think those changes made it to the car/SUV version as it's a FWD application. Much easier to say Ecoboost = 5w30 vs some are 5w20, some are 5w30.

There was a huge discussion of this on both shoforum and fordflex as we all were a little concerned.