Ford KA oil pressure problems & weird debris in oil

[Shibby]

Hi guys,

my gf just bought a small car (ford ka, 2007, 1.3i hb) to get around town. Had to buy second hand car, been promised the car had is scheduled maintenance every time. Car has been running fine for a month, but then oil pressure light came on some time ago.
Started by chaning oil & filter, no oil came out when releasing the oil plug.
Some kind of debris was blocking the hole. (see pictures)
Oil came out once we poked around the hole, releasing the blockage.
Cleaned it out as much as we could, replaced filter & oil. But we still have the same issue. I think maybe the oil pump is having trouble sucking up oil from the sump because it's blocked by the debris? Or the oil pressure switch is having trouble reading oil pressure level because of that stuff in oil?
If the motor is running without warning sign, the motor is really running fine. No clattering noise, oil visibly being pumped around.

Most of the time , the problems occurs when the engine is cold by the way.

Anyone got some advice?
thanks

ps: i did not find gold =(

 

[LvR]

Stop driving it immediately while it still still sounds ok - you may have been lucky and could save yourself an engine rebuild.

I would drop the oil pan/sump at the very least and check for the rest of that garbage before using the motor again

 

[Shibby]

I hope I'll find the time and someone to assist me, to remove the sump. I'm not a great mechanic and I think the gearbox needs to be removed too on these Ford Ka models before dropping the sump.

What I'm most concerned of, where did this debris come from? It has sugar-like texture and I can squeeze/break it with my fingers. I could easily remove the topcover of the egine to take a look at timingchain/chain guides. Those are in perfect shape, so this stuff is no grinded up parts either

 

[LvR]

I suspect rubbish/sediment out of filling bottle if its not sabotage .................

Whatever it is hard/sift it doesn't belong there and is a guaranteed recipe for disaster

 

[Shibby]

It's hard to find the correct information, but can anyone tell me if dropping the sump can be done without having to remove the gearbox?
Ford Ka 1.3 (2007) european model, I think Rocam engine

 

[Trav]

Sorry I am not familiar with the Duratec but I have done work on the Endura and Zetec on the first generation cars. Your Duratec (IIRC the Rocam was a zetec) uses a cam chain not a belt and I suspect the cam chain guide or some other plastic part has failed and this is what you are finding in the pan, either that or someone put something down it..
AFAIK you can get the pan off without removing the engine but it requires removing the CV axles and starter so its halfway there to removal.

Getting at the cam chain may be another story, it may be much easier to pull the engine. You have a serious problem with this car, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I strongly suspect there may be already main and rod bearing damage.
If I were in this situation I would probably source a low Km engine and change the cam tensioner and clutch before putting it in the car. These engines are plentiful and not that expensive then I would have and independent shop do the install for me, its a one day job.

It takes very little pressure to keep the light off so it may have been running with low oil pressure for a while doing damage at the same time, this could turn into a very deep hole you really don't want to go down with the engine that is in the car now.

 

[pbm]

What is the miles on this engine?
Did you buy from a dealer or private party?....if a dealer, I'd be getting a lawyer.

 

[WyrTwister]

I agree , drop the pan .

Or trade it off .

 

[Shibby]

@Trav: I have been able to unmount the cover on top and take a look at the chain & guides, and they were in perfect condition. Also no visible wear or damage beneath the cover. Chain was tight as it should be on one side, and a little loose on the other side. If i was informed correctly, it only tightens up completely (both sides) when running.

@pbm: 71k miles. Unfortunately, bought from private party. Without any issue when buying ...

 

[CT8]

There goes the savings of a used vehicle.

 

[andyd]

Best would be to remove the oil pan. Short of that, drain the fresh oil when warm . Check drain pan for more debris. Is the stuff sand? Save it and take it and the car to a mechanic for an oil pressure reading with a mechanical gauge to establish the pressure. If it is lower than optimal, switch to a heavier oil. Drive the car moderately. You shouldn't be hooning around town anyway.Please report back results whatever you do.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by Shibby
@Trav: I have been able to unmount the cover on top and take a look at the chain & guides, and they were in perfect condition. Also no visible wear or damage beneath the cover. Chain was tight as it should be on one side, and a little loose on the other side. If i was informed correctly, it only tightens up completely (both sides) when running.

@pbm: 71k miles. Unfortunately, bought from private party. Without any issue when buying ...

Okay at least that is something good. This is something you can try before dropping the oil pan.
Drain the oil, replace the plug and put 4 Ltr Kerosene in it, do not start the engine just let it sit for a day. It will not dissolve any plastic or other materials but it will dissolve some of the sludge that may be in there restricting the pickup.
Drain it and refill with the cheapest oil that meets the spec and run if for 100km then change it and the filter with quality oil. Do an oil pressure test before and after the kerosene and oil change.

 

[Shibby]

Okay thanks for the advice. Now gotta find out where i can get kerosene

What i do not understand is why the oil pressure is problematic when it's cold. If the oil pump is dying, then it should give problems when oil is hot.
Eitherway, it's a very strange problem.

The filth in the oil is best described as sugar texture, not sand.
Also found out that dropping the oil pan is impossible without disassembling gearbox/clutch/cv axle

 

[Trav]

You can use diesel, its basically the same just not a finely refined, its closer to #2 heating oil but it will work. The FSM I have for these cars is for the older Endura engines which are different but I seems the plate between engine and transmission is the issue with yours, from the look of it it looks like the flywheel may need to come off.

Years ago I did a lot of Buick engines and the weak pot with them was the timing cover mounted oil pumps. Because the pressure was always just enough to keep the oil light off bearing wear became an issue.
When you did a mechanical oil pressure test on them it was common to see the gauge take some time before it instantly shot up to 40 psi with a new pump and cover installed.
In the car the light stayed took time to go out when the engine was cold.

Running a lighter non A3/B4 5w30 oil not a heavier oil may help stave off the noises commonly associated with bearing wear. If this is happening when you do a pressure test it may be something to to look into further or wait it/if it start knocking then deal with it.
Not being able to look at this in person is a real drawback so I suggest with doing the least expensive things first before breaking the wallet out.

 

[Shibby]

Updates:
today i tried again with a cold engine, but i immediately hit the throttle for just a second. Light went out immediately when going to 2.5k rpm.
Could that mean anything?

Again, thanks for the tips Trav, i'll see if i can spare some time to clean the engine with diesel

 

[Trav]

It means the oil pump pumped more oil faster. It would be nice to what the oil pressure actually is on this engine when its cold and cranking, it should build at least a few psi before it starts.
Its possible the oil pressure sender has some restriction in it and is not working properly, I wouldn't bet on it but they do fail, a mechanical oil pressure test will find that.

 

[Shibby]

update: cleaned it out once more, replaced oil. The oil pressure seems to improve. It's not quite perfect yet, but better than before. Right now, on cold days, it takes about 4-5 secs for the oil pressure light to go out when cold starting the car.

I think there's still some debris left in the oil sump, blocking the suction point for some part.

Looking to recplace the oil pressure switch, it's cheap and it'll rule out a faulty switch. But haven't been able to locate the switch

 

[BrocLuno]

OK, there is the possibility that you have drain-back. that is the galleries drain oil into the pan overnight. You go start the car and the light stays on until the filter and galleries are full. Best test is to install a filter with a known good anti-drain-back-valvle (ADBV) which can be a silicone or nitrile rubber one-way valve (looks like a big washer). If it changes the symptoms, that was part of your problem.

A plugged pick-up screen is not good, but does not usually act like this. A cracked pick-up tube might act like this as it can't get a complete suction on the sump and it drains out right away when the engine is shut off. Same can happen from a loose oil pump.

The granular stuff looks like a plastic part that has been exposed to some harsh chemical and is breaking down. What parts of the engine are plastic?

I wish we could get Ka's over here. I think they would be great little town cars for old folks and such. They have taken over the niche of the actual air-cooled VW's. There have been some that have been seriously hot rodded

 

[Shibby]

Plastic parts in that engine are the cam chain guides (or rails). But there's no rattling sound, and I was able to check the top of the rails when I removed the cover. Everything was in perfect shape, tension on chain was perfect etc ...
The only plausible explanation left, is that some previous owner poured something in by accident when replacing the oil.

 

[Trav]

The oil pickup on these is pretty robust and bolt up with 2 bolts, it does however use a rubber o ring at the pump connection that possibly may not sealing properly.
See how it goes if it improved.