Ford Gen 3 Coyote V8 owners oil and filter questions
- Thread starter DMTJAGER
- Start date
I believe the Gen 3 Coyote now specs 5W-30 instead of 5W-20 ... Ford must have finally realized 5W-20 wasn't cuttin' it. Lots of Gen 1 and Gen 2 Coyote owners use 5W-30 instead of the specified 5W-20.
Use any oil that meets the Ford spec, and I'd stick with the Motorcraft filter while it's under warranty.
Thanks for the reply, sticking with 5w-30 and the motorcraft oil filters WUW has been repeatedly recommended to me so will do just that.
Uses the 10575 and shorter 10060 if I'm not mistaken and the grade now is 5w-30. If it worries you enough just get any 5W-30 with a Ford WSS certification but even without it it'll be fine. You can use a 40 grade oil if you want but a 30 grade will provide adequate protection. The oil consumption issue from vacuum should be fixed by now and it's a dual injection engine so saps isn't really an issue either.
Any brand Syn 10w30 and Fram Ultra for me year round in Florida.
I also use a Ronin drain plug and ZERO spills or mess.
roninfactory.com
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I also use a Ronin drain plug and ZERO spills or mess.
FORD EASY OIL DRAIN
FITS: CLICK HERE TO SEE FITMENT GUIDE - In summary, if your oil drain plug is a yellow plastic plug, then this item should fit. 2021+ Ford F150 Lariat, XL, XLT 2.7 V6 2015-2020 Ford F150 2.7L, 3.5L, 5.0L V8 2017-2020 Ford Raptor V6 (Gen 2) 2018+ Ford Mustang 5.0L V8 2019+ Ford Edge ST 2.7L V6...
roninfactory.com
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dnewton3
Staff member
I'm curious Zee, what's your basis for implying Ford changed grade because the oil "wasn't cuttin' it". There are a LOT of previous gen Coy motors which have shown excellent wear trends in UOAs; on 5w-20. Maybe it's more fair to say than when DI came to the Coy motors, they needed a thicker oil to combat the effects of fuel dilution. Your statement could be interpreted to imply that wear rates were not good with 5w-20; that's a far cry from the truth.
As for the OPs filter question, any decent brand name filter will suffice. Use one that is listed for the application while under warranty, to avoid potential warranty claim issues, should the unthinkable happen.
Ford started out with specifiying 5W-20 in the 3rd Gen Coyote, but now they are specifying 5W-30. Must be reason besides just for the heck of it. I don't think any mechanical design changes have been done on the 3rd Gen Coyote that I've seen. I might be because of fuel dilution, which if bad can't be good for viscosity and wear on long OCIs.
Lot of oil consumption issues as well
I think that's only true for the Coyote used in the F150 trucks. Mustang still has the oil pump gears driven off the crankshaft.
I've had good luck using 40 grades in my gen 3 coyote so far. I only use the Fram Ultra xg10575 filter though which always look great when removed and cut open. You couldn't pay me to use a motorcraft. So far though Rotella 5w40 has felt the best in terms of idle quality and engine noises. These engines make all sorts of noises and they are minimized with thicker oils. These also tend to have cam reversion issues caused by the vct solenoids best I can tell. On 20 grades my idle is so poor that it's embarrassing to have anyone in the truck with me and its worst when it's hot out. Though on rotella it is smooth as can be. These issues should be fixed though for a 21+ model. Mine is a 2018. Many are recommending 50 grades to be used in them with a half quart overfill if you drive it hard.
dnewton3
Staff member
- old habits die hard from the thicker is always better crowd. Is there any tangible proof that the 50 grade (yikes!) somehow is the magic stuff over any other grade?
- overfilling an engine that already has nearly 8 quarts? For what purpose? (they hold 7.75 qrts; I could see adding that last 1/4 qrt just to finish the bottle off, but adding yet more means opening up another quart, and then overfilling even more)
Keep in mind that the 21+ have changed some. A bit less capacity. But on the 18-20’s that’s what has been recommended by some engine builders who have given this information to tuners. I’ll copy paste some info from renowned coyote tuner Ken Osbourne from Oz Tuning. I am currently running their tune on my truck with a mustang intake manifold. It sees 7500 rpm often.
I posted this in our Oz Army group earlier today, in response to a question regarding a "rattle" noise that some trucks make on very light acceleration. I've commented about this before, but this response goes a little more in depth.
_______________________________________________________________________
The noise is not coming from the DI pump. It is being caused by the DI pump, but the noise itself is typically the exhaust cam phaser on the passenger side. The added load of the DI pump and the stiffer valve springs in Gen 3 motors put a lot of extra force on that cam.
At very low loads and RPM, the oil pump is barely making 20-25 psi of oil pressure, and very minimal flow. So, then the VCT solenoids open to allow oil to enter the phasers to rotate the phaser, there isn’t enough pressure or flow to fill the galley quick enough to rotate the cam, and there’s a small amount of air inside the phaser for a split second, while the cam is being commanded to rotate. That causes the phaser to “rattle” back and forth until oil fills the galley and rotates the phaser. Is it ideal, no. Is it hurting anything, highly unlikely.
Now... why does it happen tuned and doesn’t happen stock. That’s because in our tune, we schedule the DI system to come online earlier, at lower loads and lower rpms. We do that, because this being a 12:1 CR engine, it needs all the knock protection it can get, especially if you choose to run low octane fuel. Direct Injection direct cools the cylinder, greatly increasing knock protection and performance. So, it’s a valid trade off. Better protection from something that definitely will hurt your engine, knock, versus the slight chance that if you feather the gas pedal juuust right, you’ll here the cam phasers rattle.
Let me be very clear this is not “ping”, “knock”, or “detonation” like everyone likes to describe any noise they ever hear an engine make. Trucks that have this issue will make the noise even with E85 in the tank, and it’s essentially impossible to cause knock on one of these engines on E85, without obscene amounts of boost. So.... it’s not knock.
Another easy test you can do yourself to prove to yourself, that “maybe” I might actually know what I’m talking about.
When you hear the noise, press the pedal down just a little more. What this will do is instantly increase oil pressure and flow, abs the noise will stop. Now, if this were knock, increasing load would have the exact opposite effect. You would cause more knock because the cylinder pressures would increase with the added load/throttle.
Lastly, for everyone that’s hearing this noise, you should all check your oil levels. Everyone knows these trucks have oil consumption issues, and of the dozens of times I’ve explained this to various people 90% of the time the person complaining of the noise was down on oil.
So, things you can do to improve or eliminate the noise. First, make sure your oil level is full. I personally run an extra 1/2 quart of oil in all of my Coyote engines. I do this based on recommendations from several well known engine builders. Coyote engines tend to have a hard time with oil drain-back when driven hard, and that can leave you with an oil pan that’s basically dry at WOT. Adding an extra 1/2 quart is a good way to help with that, and have adequate oil flow will also help with this noise. Second, run 5w50 oil. It’s perfectly safe for any Coyote engine, and the added weight can increase oil pressure at low loads, which can help with this problem as well.
I posted this in our Oz Army group earlier today, in response to a question regarding a "rattle" noise that some trucks make on very light acceleration. I've commented about this before, but this response goes a little more in depth.
_______________________________________________________________________
The noise is not coming from the DI pump. It is being caused by the DI pump, but the noise itself is typically the exhaust cam phaser on the passenger side. The added load of the DI pump and the stiffer valve springs in Gen 3 motors put a lot of extra force on that cam.
At very low loads and RPM, the oil pump is barely making 20-25 psi of oil pressure, and very minimal flow. So, then the VCT solenoids open to allow oil to enter the phasers to rotate the phaser, there isn’t enough pressure or flow to fill the galley quick enough to rotate the cam, and there’s a small amount of air inside the phaser for a split second, while the cam is being commanded to rotate. That causes the phaser to “rattle” back and forth until oil fills the galley and rotates the phaser. Is it ideal, no. Is it hurting anything, highly unlikely.
Now... why does it happen tuned and doesn’t happen stock. That’s because in our tune, we schedule the DI system to come online earlier, at lower loads and lower rpms. We do that, because this being a 12:1 CR engine, it needs all the knock protection it can get, especially if you choose to run low octane fuel. Direct Injection direct cools the cylinder, greatly increasing knock protection and performance. So, it’s a valid trade off. Better protection from something that definitely will hurt your engine, knock, versus the slight chance that if you feather the gas pedal juuust right, you’ll here the cam phasers rattle.
Let me be very clear this is not “ping”, “knock”, or “detonation” like everyone likes to describe any noise they ever hear an engine make. Trucks that have this issue will make the noise even with E85 in the tank, and it’s essentially impossible to cause knock on one of these engines on E85, without obscene amounts of boost. So.... it’s not knock.
Another easy test you can do yourself to prove to yourself, that “maybe” I might actually know what I’m talking about.
When you hear the noise, press the pedal down just a little more. What this will do is instantly increase oil pressure and flow, abs the noise will stop. Now, if this were knock, increasing load would have the exact opposite effect. You would cause more knock because the cylinder pressures would increase with the added load/throttle.Lastly, for everyone that’s hearing this noise, you should all check your oil levels. Everyone knows these trucks have oil consumption issues, and of the dozens of times I’ve explained this to various people 90% of the time the person complaining of the noise was down on oil.
So, things you can do to improve or eliminate the noise. First, make sure your oil level is full. I personally run an extra 1/2 quart of oil in all of my Coyote engines. I do this based on recommendations from several well known engine builders. Coyote engines tend to have a hard time with oil drain-back when driven hard, and that can leave you with an oil pan that’s basically dry at WOT. Adding an extra 1/2 quart is a good way to help with that, and have adequate oil flow will also help with this noise. Second, run 5w50 oil. It’s perfectly safe for any Coyote engine, and the added weight can increase oil pressure at low loads, which can help with this problem as well.
Why?
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I’ve had too many fail on me. They are subpar at best. The fl500s is better then the fail prone fl820s. But I refuse to support them. So I use good filters. Like the Fram Ultra.
How did they fail? Please, elaborate.
I have had tears in the media, slices in the adbv and end caps that weren’t glued on properly. So when the cans were opened you could pull it apart. All common issues especially with the fl820s. I’ve changed to used fram ultras and have not had a single problem. They are worth the money to me. Especially for what dealers are selling motorcrafts for where I am.
Have you ever cut open the FL-820S and post it here?
