Ford EV will gain access to Tesla Superchargers and come with standard NACS ports starting 2025

[Shel_B]

I mentioned to a Tesla-owning friend about Ford getting access to Tesla chargers. He sent the following e-mail:

God dam it!!!!!! Keep those Ford things away from my chargers


I just now received an email from his wife:
Better not find a Ford taking up a charger when I need one

 

[JeffKeryk]

Maybe you should call Elon instead. Tell him Frank from NY said he visualizes fights and worse at Long Island and the Five Boroughs Supercharger networks when angry Tesla owners have to wait for Fords to recharge.

My Dad was Frank from NY. Lockport, to be exact. Son of very poor immigrants from Ukraine. Played football at Yale; Navy ROTC. Roommate was Victor Kiam.

Musk will probalby put the fights on Twitter for a fee... He needs the money.

 

[E365]

Hopefully this adapter eventually becomes available to all CCS vehicles.

Downside for 800v cars (Hyundai/Kia/Porsche/GM trucks/etc) would be a 350kw CCS charger will be WAY faster than a Tesla V2/V3 supercharger for them.

 

[Torrid]

Hopefully this adapter eventually becomes available to all CCS vehicles.

Downside for 800v cars (Hyundai/Kia/Porsche/GM trucks/etc) would be a 350kw CCS charger will be WAY faster than a Tesla V2/V3 supercharger for them.

For sure. I just see it as a stop gap to keep someone from being out of luck in an area that doesn't have a CCS available, which is the problem I would have where I live in some areas.

 

[GrumpyCat]

I could see Tesla customers PO'ed waiting for Ford owners to juice up their Ford EVs. Especially NY'ers, it's a tough crowd here.

More use of a Supercharger provides more revenue to build more Superchargers.

 

[demarpaint]

More use of a Supercharger provides more revenue to build more Superchargers.

They have to build them first, that takes time.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Public fueling isnt glorious either, it's typically dirty and always inconvenient.

95% of EV discussion are around trips, but the game changer is home charging.

Yes. The least expensive source and 20 seconds to connect at night, 20 seconds to disconnect in the morning, and a "full" (as full as one desires) tank.

Once you have the ability to charge with at least 50 amps (nema 14-50 dryer plug) from home in a car with good range it its hard to wrap your head around how much you had to plan for fuel.

NEMA 14-50 only delivers 40A at 100% duty cycle.

Dryers are most likely (since 1996) to have NEMA 14-30 outlets, 30A peak, 24A continuous. Still quite functional for charging an EV.

Especially in a multi vehicle household where they get used by others but not necessarily fueled.

The Tesla Wall Connector ($425, hard wired) supports up to 6 Wall Connectors on one circuit. For multi-vehicle homes one can plug everything in at once and the WCs will allocate current so as not to overload the circuit.

Instead of watching a needle start a cycle at the top then watching it sink as the week progresses until you are forced to deal with it, to waking up to a full "tank"is just a game changer.

You can still do that with the Tesla app, watch the "tank" fill.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Well, sometimes people park their vehicles long ways in Supercharger stalls already, so there's that.

My guess is, the Supercharger network will continue to grow; maybe this deal will accelerate this. And Ford drivers should pay more to charge than me. Or I will write Elon a nasty letter. That'll fix him...

So you don't know about that which you speak.

Supercharger Idle Fee

We designed the Supercharger network to enable a seamless, enjoyable road trip experience. Therefore, we understand that it can be frustrating to arrive at a station only to discover fully charged Teslas occupying all the spots. To create a better experience for all owners, we’re introducing a...

www.tesla.com

$0.50/minute, or $1.00/minute when the site is full.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Is the cost for electricity at these chargers greater than the local utility's rate? I'd imagine that there's a surcharge.

A good rule of thumb I have observed is 3x the local homeowner electric rate.

However in California and other excessively high cost electric utilities the pubic DC charger rate may only be 1.5x.

 

[GrumpyCat]

It's too bad the Volts architecture never got extended.

The Volt's driveline and transmission was a Rube Goldberg nightmare.

Conversely the Prius SynergyDrive is a mathematical nightmare but mechanical elegance and simplicity.

 

[Shel_B]

The Volt's driveline and transmission was a Rube Goldberg nightmare.

Conversely the Prius SynergyDrive is a mathematical nightmare but mechanical elegance and simplicity.

Would you please explain the nightmare?

 

[UncleDave]

The Volt's driveline and transmission was a Rube Goldberg nightmare.

Conversely the Prius SynergyDrive is a mathematical nightmare but mechanical elegance and simplicity.

Please elucidate.

 

[GrumpyCat]

They have to build them first, that takes time.

Nobody is building fast DC chargers faster than Tesla.

Currently 1782 sites in North America, most with 8 bays, many with 16 or more.
138 sites under active construction
290 sites known to have been leased by Tesla for a future Supercharger but construction has not started.

 

[JeffKeryk]

So you don't know about that which you speak.

Supercharger Idle Fee

We designed the Supercharger network to enable a seamless, enjoyable road trip experience. Therefore, we understand that it can be frustrating to arrive at a station only to discover fully charged Teslas occupying all the spots. To create a better experience for all owners, we’re introducing a...

www.tesla.com

$0.50/minute, or $1.00/minute when the site is full.

Oh, I am familiar with idle fees.
I was not talking about EVs parking in Supercharger stalls...

 

[demarpaint]

Nobody is building fast DC chargers faster than Tesla.

Currently 1782 sites in North America, most with 8 bays, many with 16 or more.
138 sites under active construction
290 sites known to have been leased by Tesla for a future Supercharger but construction has not started.

Ok, but we don't know how Tesla people will react when Ford people are charging at Tesla superchargers. You have to keep one thing in mind, my comments are based on how things might go in NY. It is a lot different here than in AL. A visit to the NY subways might give you an idea of the craziness in NY. Hopefully it works out as planned. Keep in mind the current admin would like to see a nation of EV's, they take a lot longer to charge than filling up at a gas station, even with superchargers.

 

[wemay]

As I mentioned a few times previously-the charging situation and the infrastructure are not an unsolvable issue. Electrification of (most) of Americas (as well as other countries) fleet is inevitable.
https://www.insiderintelligence.com/content/us-surpasses-5-ev-tipping-point-mass-adoption

I agree. There's a learning curve here but i feel we'll get there.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Would you please explain the nightmare?

Are you familiar with Toyota's SynergyDrive?

Toyota uses a simple 3 input/output planetary gear drive Power Split Device. The ICE is on one, about 20 HP motor/generator is on another, then the traction motor/generator and wheels are on the 3rd. This is a pretty good introduction: http://eahart.com/prius/psd/

Off the top of my head two simultaneous equations have to be solved to regulate speed:

There are 3 gear ratios, each input/output has a different ratio.

Sum of the torque to/from each source divided by its gear ratio must equal zero.
Sum of the RPM to/from each source times its gear ratio must equal zero.

I may have that backwards, that torque times ratio and RPM divided by ratio. Then again it depends on how one expresses the gear ratios.

Lore on the development of the SynergyDrive Power Split Device says the Japanese engineers were determined to make it work, yet it took many months of software work after the first hardware before they had a drivable vehicle. And a lot of work after that before it drove nicely.

Needless to say a Prius ICE throttle is drive by wire.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Ford EV will gain access to Tesla Superchargers and come with standard NACS ports starting 2025!

Jim Farley and Elon Musk will be holding a Twitter Spaces conversation today at approximately 5:30 p.m. ET. Listen to it live at: @jimfarley98 ANNOUNCEMENT: FORD EV CUSTOMERS TO GAIN ACCESS TO 12,000 TESLA SUPERCHARGERS; COMPANY TO ADD NORTH AMERICAN CHARGING STANDARD PORT IN FUTURE EVS...

www.cybertruckownersclub.com

Way back in 2013-2014 Elon Musk stated the Tesla Supercharger network is open to all EV makers who will participate on equal terms.

Many years earlier Tesla tried to give their (now known as) NACS connector to the SAE/ANSI committee who refused because they had not yet accepted the need for DC charging. Didn't want a connector with AC and DC on the same pins because a safe contactor (that is a relay) or switch for DC is more expensive than AC. Never mind the connector doesn't have AC or DC on the pins until after communication has been established with the vehicle. When the committee would not settle on a DC charging connector Tesla was forced to go with their own, alone, in order to meet deadlines for the 2012 Model S production. Eventually the committee did what committees do, produced a bastard butt-ugly solution nobody likes known as "CCS" with DC pins added to the J1772 connector.

The statement, "on equal terms" was interpreted to mean 1) an EV with similar range and ability to charge at up to 90 kW (the first Model S's limitation) so as not to be parked for hours. And 2) for the vehicle manufacturer to pay for proportionally according to use in building Superchargers and pay for the electricity. At the time Tesla Supercharger access was "free" or not at all. The Model S 60 required a $2000 option for lifetime Supercharger access, could not pay by kWh. The Model S 85 was a $10,000 upgrade from the 60 and included Supercharger access.

To this day I still have free use of Tesla Superchargers with my 2013 Model S 85.

Appears Ford has taken up Tesla on the current version of Tesla's original offer to share Supercharger access. Ford seems to have learned Electrify America is primarily about spending VW diesel fines than providing a quality service.

When TSLA valuation got so ridiculous I felt Tesla should buy F. Probably too late now, but I think F could have taught Tesla a lot about how to build vehicles in the early years. Could still teach Tesla a lot about how to make repair parts available.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Oh, I am familiar with idle fees.
I was not talking about EVs parking in Supercharger stalls...
View attachment 157930

Tesla has an 800 number posted at the Supercharger sites to have those vehicle towed at owner's expense.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Ok, but we don't know how Tesla people will react when Ford people are charging at Tesla superchargers. You have to keep one thing in mind, my comments are based on how things might go in NY. It is a lot different here than in AL. A visit to the NY subways might give you an idea of the craziness in NY. Hopefully it works out as planned. Keep in mind the current admin would like to see a nation of EV's, they take a lot longer to charge than filling up at a gas station, even with superchargers.

I'm a "Tesla People" and my reaction is, "Cool! Glad to meet you!"

The culture around Teslas is unlike anything else. Unlike gas stations people actually talk to each other at Superchargers. Many carry folding chairs to sit outside and chat while charging. Many at a Supercharger are likely to be from out of town.