Ford can't figure out 2.7L Bronco oil capacity

Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
101
Location
Louisville, KY
You may or may not find this interesting. The whole Bronco launch has been such a fiasco you would think something as simple as the oil capacity would be a non-issue. Luckily my truck has been great but I wanted to share the journey that is the mysterious oil capacity of my engine.

TL;DR version: Ford says 7qt, dipstick shows overfull. Instead of revising dipstick they say 6qts is fine. Still fills new engines with 7.5qt at factory.

We start pre-production when people are dying for any tidbit of information on the highly anticipated new model that they put deposits down to reserve.
Angles That Will Make You Pucker
With a long list of additional off-road standards being added to the engineering requirements, one challenge that surfaced was keeping both the 2.3L and 2.7L engines properly lubricated in aggressive terrain. John Kilby, Engine Systems Engineer at Ford, told Bronco Nation that the rear oil sumps were upgraded, and the oil pans enlarged to deliver adequate pressure at a 45 degree downhill angle and a 30 degree side slope –– not bad. The larger pans mean the Bronco will hold seven quarts of oil (the Ranger uses six). This will ensure Bronco engines maintain standards under the demands of off-roading.


Fast forward to official specs coming out. The 2.3L only holds 6.2 quarts but the 2.7L remains at 7.

bronco oil cap.png




Now production and deliveries have begun. 2.7L owners are confused how much oil to drain and fill. From the factory the dipsticks are filled well above the "maximum" line on the dipstick. The manual says to use 7 quarts but also never exceed the maximum mark on the dipstick. This is impossible to do because 7 quarts fills well above the mark. There is some thought that owners are not following the oil drain steps correctly and oil is being retained in the engine. Eventually a dealer reaches out to a field service engineer at Ford who confirms 7qts is the correct capacity and there is no issue with filling the engine with 7 quarts.

So now owners are using 7 quarts but the dipstick still reads incorrect. A few weeks ago a new/revised part number pops up for 2.7L dipstick. The story is that during covid remote/work-from-home engineering the wrong stick was used. My dealer orders some and swaps them out under warranty. Ford calls back the parts which is somewhat unusual according to the him. The new stick reads correctly and everyone is happy, right? Now Ford needs to send 40,000 dipsticks out to all the 2.7L owners to make the oil level read correctly.
E7D3EC2E-C844-4FBE-BA08-E3BFE00EC936.jpeg



All was seemingly fine until about 7-10 days ago when an owner had his oil changed at the dealer. They used 6qts which the customer questioned. A lot of dealers are used to changing F150 2.7s which take 6. They assume the Bronco is the same. The dealer shows him the service manual which is the bible they are to follow. It now suddenly shows 6 quart capacity. A few days later the online owners manual updates with the same. A dealer employee says to wait until a special service bulletin is issued to make sure it's not a mistake. Sure enough they release one yesterday.


ssm.png


Notice they say drain and fill is 6qts, but they still fill a dry engine with 7.5. Also using 7qts will not damage the engine.

Since I have the revised dipstick I used 7 quarts last night when changing my oil. 6qts would show low. I don't think any of this is related to the 2.7L engine failures the NHTSA is investigating but it certainly doesn't inspire confidence that they can't even stay consistent on how much oil the pan holds.

If the factory can use 7.5qts why can't I? More oil in the sump is a good thing right? What would you guys do? Am I making a big deal out of nothing or is this ridiculous as it seems to me?
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
3,120
Location
MN
You may or may not find this interesting. The whole Bronco launch has been such a fiasco you would think something as simple as the oil capacity would be a non-issue. Luckily my truck has been great but I wanted to share the journey that is the mysterious oil capacity of my engine.

TL;DR version: Ford says 7qt, dipstick shows overfull. Instead of revising dipstick they say 6qts is fine. Still fills new engines with 7.5qt at factory.

We start pre-production when people are dying for any tidbit of information on the highly anticipated new model that they put deposits down to reserve.
Angles That Will Make You Pucker
With a long list of additional off-road standards being added to the engineering requirements, one challenge that surfaced was keeping both the 2.3L and 2.7L engines properly lubricated in aggressive terrain. John Kilby, Engine Systems Engineer at Ford, told Bronco Nation that the rear oil sumps were upgraded, and the oil pans enlarged to deliver adequate pressure at a 45 degree downhill angle and a 30 degree side slope –– not bad. The larger pans mean the Bronco will hold seven quarts of oil (the Ranger uses six). This will ensure Bronco engines maintain standards under the demands of off-roading.


Fast forward to official specs coming out. The 2.3L only holds 6.2 quarts but the 2.7L remains at 7.

View attachment 110794



Now production and deliveries have begun. 2.7L owners are confused how much oil to drain and fill. From the factory the dipsticks are filled well above the "maximum" line on the dipstick. The manual says to use 7 quarts but also never exceed the maximum mark on the dipstick. This is impossible to do because 7 quarts fills well above the mark. There is some thought that owners are not following the oil drain steps correctly and oil is being retained in the engine. Eventually a dealer reaches out to a field service engineer at Ford who confirms 7qts is the correct capacity and there is no issue with filling the engine with 7 quarts.

So now owners are using 7 quarts but the dipstick still reads incorrect. A few weeks ago a new/revised part number pops up for 2.7L dipstick. The story is that during covid remote/work-from-home engineering the wrong stick was used. My dealer orders some and swaps them out under warranty. Ford calls back the parts which is somewhat unusual according to the him. The new stick reads correctly and everyone is happy, right? Now Ford needs to send 40,000 dipsticks out to all the 2.7L owners to make the oil level read correctly.
View attachment 110795


All was seemingly fine until about 7-10 days ago when an owner had his oil changed at the dealer. They used 6qts which the customer questioned. A lot of dealers are used to changing F150 2.7s which take 6. They assume the Bronco is the same. The dealer shows him the service manual which is the bible they are to follow. It now suddenly shows 6 quart capacity. A few days later the online owners manual updates with the same. A dealer employee says to wait until a special service bulletin is issued to make sure it's not a mistake. Sure enough they release one yesterday.


View attachment 110797

Notice they say drain and fill is 6qts, but they still fill a dry engine with 7.5. Also using 7qts will not damage the engine.

Since I have the revised dipstick I used 7 quarts last night when changing my oil. 6qts would show low. I don't think any of this is related to the 2.7L engine failures the NHTSA is investigating but it certainly doesn't inspire confidence that they can't even stay consistent on how much oil the pan holds.

If the factory can use 7.5qts why can't I? More oil in the sump is a good thing right? What would you guys do? Am I making a big deal out of nothing or is this ridiculous as it seems to me?
The only reason they went to 6 qts is so they don't have to send out 40k dipsticks. Ford is not making me happy lately.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
7,617
Location
Ohio
If the factory can use 7.5qts why can't I?
Does any engine specify the same capacity for dry fill as they do for an oil change ? Typically they do NOT.

At the end of the day, as long as you don't off-road your vehicle (and get into the 45º or 30º slope conditions), 6 quarts or 7 quarts is going to be fine. No consumer-grade engine is so critical that it requires an exact fluid capacity with no tolerance.
 

Brice

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
101
Location
Louisville, KY
Does any engine specify the same capacity for dry fill as they do for an oil change ? Typically they do NOT.

At the end of the day, as long as you don't off-road your vehicle (and get into the 45º or 30º slope conditions), 6 quarts or 7 quarts is going to be fine. No consumer-grade engine is so critical that it requires an exact fluid capacity with no tolerance.

My fault, I meant if they can put in the old capacity (7.5 dry, 7 for drain/fill). I don't see an issue with doing the same. More proof to me that the oil pan is sized for 7 quart capacity but they don't want to actually fix the dipstick problem. My concern was thinking that all these engines had been overfilled this whole time. Also, the problem with a 1 quart variance in fill capacity is that if you burn/lose some are you one quart low or two quarts low? 14-16% is a large variance to say it's close enough when there is a team of engineers working on these designs.

Somewhat scary a fairly trivial matter is this difficult to resolve at the big FoMoCo.

Exactly.
Did they fire these engineers because they couldn't accomplish basic tasks like a drain/fill capacity and dipstick? Or is it worrisome that they will have less people on hand when the old ones couldn't even accomplish something simple? This is my first Ford so perhaps I'm just now learning about what everyone else already knew. I was skeptical enough to get the 8yr/100k Ford extended warranty.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
3,120
Location
MN
Also, the problem with a 1 quart variance in fill capacity is that if you burn/lose some are you one quart low or two quarts low? 14-16% is a large variance to say it's close enough when there is a team of engineers working on these designs.
Maybe they need to go to the 2 Qt between add and full dipsticks like they did on the 5.0? ;) My 2019 is filled with 9 qts, but apparently is OK to run it down to 7?
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,876
Location
Kansas City
Former Ford fan here, it's a shame that they don't have their act together for something as simple as oil capacity.
Toyota Tacoma 2.7L had a .8 qt discrepancy between the stick and the manual for years. I just dumped in a 5 qt jug and it always was just under the max line.
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
17,101
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
What makes this even more fun is this is the engine where it says in the manual that you have to wait 15 minutes after shutting the engine off to get a proper level. This is that 2 piece block with small passageways between the CGI and aluminum sections. We had a tech who for some reason could not understand this concept and kept pumping 8+ quarts into these. Thankfully he is no longer with the company for numerous reasons.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
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Location
NY
Toyota Tacoma 2.7L had a .8 qt discrepancy between the stick and the manual for years. I just dumped in a 5 qt jug and it always was just under the max line.
OK, but Ford imo has really dropped the ball over the years. I went from Ford fan boy, to once my E-150 is gone that will be my last Ford.
 
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
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Colorado
If Ford has this much trouble figuring out such a simple problem it makes one wonder how they handle the really complex stuff.
I had a 2004 Taurus that was so bad that Ford went on my never buy again list with VW and Chrysler corp or whatever their name is this month.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
7,617
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Ohio
The other elephant in the room. 6.2 qts of oil? What the crap. Make it a stinking even x.0. Stop doing that bush league crap, it's irritating as fark.
A lot of times this comes from converting from liters to quarts (but doesn't appear to be the case here).

Thing is, a number like 6.2 is probably the specific volume for the oil pan but anything from 6 to 6.5 quarts is perfectly okay and they know that's what owners, shops, etc will do.
 
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