My mother is interested in trading in her 98 Z34 Monte Carlo for a new Ford Five Hundred sedan. It seems like a nice car and has a wonderful amount of room and comfort inside. I was wondering about the reliability and reputation of the 3.0L DOHC Duratec V6 and CVT 6 speed Auto tranny? Please discuss opinions or what your experiences have been with this motor and tranny.
Thanks Guys!
Ford 500 3.0L Duratec V6
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The engine is under powered for the amount of weight it has to pull around! Ford had packageing issues and thisis the only Ford V6 they could fit in it. It is basicly built on a Volvo platform. If you get the awd the weight goes up even more.
I do not have first hand experince with this 500 as a ford. I am guessing it should be stiff, quite and much more refined then previous fwd Ford platforms. The engine has a fairly good track record and has been used in a lot of Ford products. Ford's bigest area of concern is electrical it always has been. I had issues with my Fords and just about everyone I have ever known especialy wifes side has always had electrical issues.
My wife has an uncle that works for Ford so 1/2 of here family drive Fords because of the employee discount. The next big thing is powersteering pumps. None of the family have ever had a mechanical engine related problem or a transmission problems that I am aware of! They drive mostly SUV's, Vans and full size trucks. She does have an uncle with a Taurus not sure if it is a SHO or not but it has just under 200,000 and is still going strong.
The bottom end of the V6 3.0 Duratec is very stout. It can usually handle around 400 whp before internals usually need to be built up.
The car is a massive pig however...and quite slow. It really needs about an 80 bhp for the weight class.
Does your mother really need a giant car like the Ford 500? Have you looked at the Mazda 6s? It has a 6spd ATX option, and has more bhp available from the same engine (220 bhp) and weighs about 500 lbs LESS !!!
Heck they even have a hatch version available that has more available cargo room then the giant F500.
Mazda 6s Hatch
Front Head Room: 38.7 in.
Front Hip Room: 54.7 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 56.1 in.
Rear Head Room: 36.7 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 54.9 in.
Rear Hip Room: 54.1 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.3 in.
Rear Leg Room: 36.5 in.
Luggage Capacity: 22 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5
Ford 500
Front Head Room: 39.4 in.
Front Hip Room: 54.2 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 54.3 in.
Rear Head Room: 38.6 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 57.6 in.
Rear Hip Room: 54.1 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.3 in.
Rear Leg Room: 40.9 in.
Luggage Capacity: 21 cu. ft.
Maximum Cargo Capacity: 21 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5
The Ford Fusion is on Ford's website now and is similar to a Mazda 6 (it uses the same chassis anyway).
I think the Fusion is expected to be available this summer.
quote:I have an '02 Sable with the Duratec. When I researched this powerplant, I couldn't find anyone saying anything bad about it. Now, the AX4N transmission she came with... that's another story. I think the CVT transmission in the 500 is a new product. I googled that CVT, and found the following lines: "According to the documents, these early D3s have possibly suffered from one or more of sixty-five (65) quality concerns, from defective platforms to faulty CVT gearbox and paint quality problems." "For a company that has already been stung in the press and the court of public opinion for a high number of recalls and perceived quality lapses, fundamental component concerns like the quality of Ford's CVT transmissions have Dearborn executives and company loyalists alike reaching for the antacid." Cite http://www.blueovalnews.com/2004/cars/fivehundred.quality092804.htm Here is a discussion forum with some guys at the plant talking about the car: http://warnerrobert.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001465;p=
Originally posted by Ryan00TJ: My mother is interested in trading in her 98 Z34 Monte Carlo for a new Ford Five Hundred sedan. It seems like a nice car and has a wonderful amount of room and comfort inside. I was wondering about the reliability and reputation of the 3.0L DOHC Duratec V6 and CVT 6 speed Auto tranny? Please discuss opinions or what your experiences have been with this motor and tranny. Thanks Guys!
Car and Driver.com has a report on the 500 on its site. It says the car itself is boring. It stated that the command seating is just an advertising gimmick and in actuallity, the seating position is 3 inches higher than the average sedan. Speed wise, they said it is a little slower than the 3.5LV6 Chrysler 300.
In my opinion, I think it looks old already. The design has been used already. It looks like a Lexas LS430, which is going for a redesign and closely resembles the outgoing Toyota Avalon.
If you do go for it, I heard the CVT is kind of boring to drive with. Have your mother test drive a Toyota Avalon, new or old (04), and she will probably like it more. I was thinking, what about the Chrysler 300.
brianl703 suggested looking at the Mazda 6s. Go for it. It's a nice car. The Ford Fusion is going to be based off the same platform.
Car and Driver Review of the Ford 500 Limited AWD
quote:It looks like the Ford Fusion is NOT available with the V6 and the manual transmission, but the Mazda 6 is. I hope Ford fixes that.
Originally posted by JeepZJ4.0: brianl703 suggested looking at the Mazda 6s. Go for it. It's a nice car. The Ford Fusion is going to be based off the same platform.
While the 3.0L Vulcan engine in my '95 Taurus seems like it wants to run forever, it does have a VERY TOUGH TIME in the power/acceleration arena...granted I run it at approximately 6500' altitude...still I would not recommend any Ford 3.0L if it doesn't have any more punch than this one purely from a safety perspective...there are just some times you need the HP and torque.
Thanks everyone for the help and opinions! I went with her today for the test drive and my mother immediately fell in love with it. I drove it also and I must say it's quite a car for the $ spent. Has decent power for a 3,797lb car and a 203HP 3.0L V6. Won't win any races but pulls its own quite nicely. I'm sure the AWD model would be more of dog. Handling was the area that suprised me, this platform has virtually no body roll and corners quite nicely. Ride is very quiet and smooth, and braking is really nice due to large rotors front and rear. Interior room is amazing, I am 6' 3" @ 190lbs and with the passenger seat extended all the way my knees don't even brush the back of the front seat. Ford advertises that you can fit 9 full size gold club bags in the trunk and I can see that now. The trunk is simply huge for it's size! My mother purchased the base 500 Dark Gray Metallic SE model non AWD w the new Aisin F21 6 speed Auto tranny, not the CVT in the AWD models. Tranny is supersmooth and much above the older Ford auto's i've driven. She needed a car with lots of room, they travel long distances to watch my brother play baseball and something comfortable. Not bad at all for $21,9. I will say that this Ford dealer went way out of their way and made the deal quite a pleasent experience. They introduced us to everyone there, parts, service people and generally gave a warm feeling. I did not receive anywhere near this treatment when I purchased my SS or TJ. I gotta give Ford a big thumbs up on this one! ![[Cheers!]](/forums/graemlins/cheers.gif)
![[Patriot]](/forums/graemlins/patriot.gif)
BTW We also looked at the Impala, G6 and new Lacrosse. She needed a big car with lots of room and the above were just too small and tight when compared to the interior room of the 500.
BTW We also looked at the Impala, G6 and new Lacrosse. She needed a big car with lots of room and the above were just too small and tight when compared to the interior room of the 500.quote:...is not the same as the 3.0L Duratec engine, which is what's in the Ford 500. I believe the differences are that the Duratec has: 2 more camshafts 12 more valves 60 more HP
Originally posted by pscholte: the 3.0L Vulcan engine...
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I think the Ford 500 looks like a B5 chassis VW Passat from the side. The front and rear facia are very different but the basic body structure (roof line/door line) is remarkably similar.
Some things I noticed about the Chicago built 500 was that it uses SACHS suspension components and has many other German components and traits. One thing that was disappointing was that the hood is still held open with a prop rod. I think they could have designed a nice hydraulic cylinder to do that job and given the aura of a bit more quality.
The sheet metal under the hood is still sharp to the touch and unfinished but if the price is right then it should turn out to be a very nice family car. Do these cars come standard with traction control, ABS, rear airbags or even smart airbags?
quote:Nice. Im about the same size and thats why I liked that car too. Its actually bigger than the Crown Vic (shhhhh!). The lacross was just a joke. I dont care how it drives, interior room should come first.
Originally posted by Ryan00TJ: Interior room is amazing, I am 6' 3" @ 190lbs and with the passenger seat extended all the way my knees don't even brush the back of the front seat. Ford advertises that you can fit 9 full size gold club bags in the trunk and I can see that now. The trunk is simply huge for it's size!
quote:After those hydraulic cylinders lose their pressure and you have to work under the hood, you'll wish for a prop rod. Especially if your head happens to be in the way of the hood when it decides it's gonna come down
Originally posted by FowVay: One thing that was disappointing was that the hood is still held open with a prop rod. I think they could have designed a nice hydraulic cylinder to do that job and given the aura of a bit more quality.
![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon}
In the Car & Driver test, the 4wd 500 sedan did 60 in 8 seconds and 88 in the quarter mile. It would go from 50 to 80 in about 7.3 seconds. To me, these are amazing speeds for this engine in a car of this size and weight. It weighed 3977 pounds.
Car & Driver has also tested the Ford Freestyle and got an 8.2 second time to 60 and 86 mph in the quarter; this in a vehicle weighing 4190 pounds. Both the 500 and the Freestyle were AWD, and had the CVT transmission standard with the AWD.
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quote:Maybe Ford will throw in a piece of 2X4 lumber for those people too cheap to replace a worn part.
After those hydraulic cylinders lose their pressure and you have to work under the hood, you'll wish for a prop rod. Especially if your head happens to be in the way of the hood when it decides it's gonna come down
You should really have your mom test drive the Mazda 6s Hatch or Wagon...they've both got more cargo room then then F500, similar interior space, and the car's about 500 lbs lighter, and has 20 more horsepower.
And its got a 6spd ATX option in the 2005's. Did I mention it was alot cheaper and has a superior suspension? ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
They are basically the same engine/transmission, just the 6 has more power, and a 38.7 turning radius (vs the fords 40).
[ February 22, 2005, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: crossbow ]
They are basically the same engine/transmission, just the 6 has more power, and a 38.7 turning radius (vs the fords 40).
[ February 22, 2005, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: crossbow ]quote:Is that what the dealership uses? I wonder if they got a lot of dealership complaints about using hydraulic cylinders on hoods. I know a lot of mechanics hate them for the reason I described. The Taurus, which the 500 is replacing, used hydraulic cylinders on the hood.
Originally posted by FowVay: Maybe Ford will throw in a piece of 2X4 lumber for those people too cheap to replace a worn part.
quote:I heard they are going to build the Taurus along side the 500. They still have the Taurus on Ford's website, along with the 500. Maybe they'll drop it next year? Ryan, glad your mother is happy with the Ford. My family is sick of Ford. We had them before I was born and just got rid of the last one last April. They were all good vehicles but my father got sick of the dealerships but it sounds like you found a good dealer. Awesome!
Originally posted by brianl703: The Taurus, which the 500 is replacing, used hydraulic cylinders on the hood.
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The Taurus/Sable is still built here in Atlanta. I don't know if there's another factory for the Taurus some place else. I know they're still pumping out the Taurus by the hundreds. I'd love to see them configure the factory to produce the 500. It's one of the few domestic cars that I actually like.
The one 500 that I looked at had a union sticker in the window that said that it was built in Chicago.
I have to admit that the post with Cathy Covington and her problems with the service representative having a vendetta against her because she may have said something that he didn't like has a large impact on my opinion of the Ford Motor Company. I can tolerate a less-than-perfect vehicle but I am a stickler for customer care and service.
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