For VW and Audi 1.8T owners!!!

[zoomzoom]

VW Admits Sludge Problem

August 30, 2004
Volkswagen is warning owners of VW Passats and Audi A4s about an engine sludge problem. The company won't say how many engines it has replaced or repaired so far.

Affected are turbocharged four-cylinder engines on 1998 through 2004 Passats and 1997 to 2004 A4s, Automotive News reported.

Consumers have been complaining about the problem for years. "At just under 36k miles my oil pump blew and the car went crazy," Tim of Grand Blanc, Michigan, said in a complaint to ConsumerAffairs.Com earlier this year.

"The oil pump was full of sludge (so they told me) which caused blockage and massive heat build-up, which blew out the turbo. $5000 later I received a call from the service manager who told me that it was ready to be picked up," Tim said. VW refused to pay for the repairs, he said.

It's the latest in a long line of quality problems for VW, which has seen its U.S. market share slip in recent years.

Sludge problems aren't unique to VW. The Center for Auto Safety is asking Chrysler to correct sludge problems and extend the warranty on 2.7-liter V-6 engines in its 1998-2002 model year vehicles. Many consumers have complained of problems in the engine used in the Dodge Durango

"My Dodge Durango oil gauge would show fine one second then terrible the next. If I let it cool it would be ok and then go back to 0 pressure when I got going," said Milet of Mart, Texas, in a complaint to ConsumerAffairs.Com. "I showed them all the oil changes I had done and they told me I must have been getting ripped off because I had "sludge" everywhere.

Toyota has had sludge problems in its the 1MZ V-6 and the 5SFE inline 4 engines and faces the prospect of replacing or repairing 3.3 million engines.

 

[mikep]

quote:

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Originally posted by zoomzoom:
VW Admits Sludge Problem

August 30, 2004
Volkswagen is warning owners of VW Passats and Audi A4s about an engine sludge problem. The company won't say how many engines it has replaced or repaired so far.

Affected are turbocharged four-cylinder engines on 1998 through 2004 Passats and 1997 to 2004 A4s, Automotive News reported.

Consumers have been complaining about the problem for years. "At just under 36k miles my oil pump blew and the car went crazy," Tim of Grand Blanc, Michigan, said in a complaint to ConsumerAffairs.Com earlier this year.

"The oil pump was full of sludge (so they told me) which caused blockage and massive heat build-up, which blew out the turbo. $5000 later I received a call from the service manager who told me that it was ready to be picked up," Tim said. VW refused to pay for the repairs, he said.

It's the latest in a long line of quality problems for VW, which has seen its U.S. market share slip in recent years.

Sludge problems aren't unique to VW. The Center for Auto Safety is asking Chrysler to correct sludge problems and extend the warranty on 2.7-liter V-6 engines in its 1998-2002 model year vehicles. Many consumers have complained of problems in the engine used in the Dodge Durango

"My Dodge Durango oil gauge would show fine one second then terrible the next. If I let it cool it would be ok and then go back to 0 pressure when I got going," said Milet of Mart, Texas, in a complaint to ConsumerAffairs.Com. "I showed them all the oil changes I had done and they told me I must have been getting ripped off because I had "sludge" everywhere.

Toyota has had sludge problems in its the 1MZ V-6 and the 5SFE inline 4 engines and faces the prospect of replacing or repairing 3.3 million engines.

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Don't you love how VW has thumbed their noses at those who opted for their less expensive, Jetta and Golf 1.8T models? Same motors, same problems but those people didn't pay the premium that Passat and A4 owners did so they don't get the same coverage

 

[Mr. Ram]

Zoom Zoom : I am dealing with one of the 2.7L engines from Chrysler (girfriends car) so far so good. I just hope chrysler goes good for them like Toyota and VW, but i wont hold my breath.

See my other post "Valvoline Sypower, worth it?"

Good to have members looking out for others best intrests here. Keep up the good work

 

[AndyH]

quote:

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Originally posted by mikep:
Don't you love how VW has thumbed their noses at those who opted for their less expensive, Jetta and Golf 1.8T models? Same motors, same problems but those people didn't pay the premium that Passat and A4 owners did so they don't get the same coverage

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I don't believe the issue is VW thumbing their noses at the cheaper VW's with the 1.8T engine. Rather, it has to do with the orientation of the engines in the vehicles (logitudinal versus transverse).

The bulletins only apply to longitudinally-mounted (north-south) 1.8T's, as found in the Passat and the Audi A4. It does not apply to transversely (east-west) mounted 1.8Ts as found in the Golf/Jetta/Beetle and the Audi TT.

The longitudinal 1.8T engine has a much smaller oilpan, and a much smaller oil capacity than the transverse 1.8T. This causes the oil to run hotter, which breaks it down faster, leading to sludge. VW/Audi's "fix" for this is to run synthetic oil at 5K intervals, and they are also installing larger oil filters that add 1/2qt of capacity to the oil system.

 

[mikep]

quote:

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Originally posted by AndyH:

quote:

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Originally posted by mikep:
Don't you love how VW has thumbed their noses at those who opted for their less expensive, Jetta and Golf 1.8T models? Same motors, same problems but those people didn't pay the premium that Passat and A4 owners did so they don't get the same coverage

---

I don't believe the issue is VW thumbing their noses at the cheaper VW's with the 1.8T engine. Rather, it has to do with the orientation of the engines in the vehicles (logitudinal versus transverse).

The bulletins only apply to longitudinally-mounted (north-south) 1.8T's, as found in the Passat and the Audi A4. It does not apply to transversely (east-west) mounted 1.8Ts as found in the Golf/Jetta/Beetle and the Audi TT.

The longitudinal 1.8T engine has a much smaller oilpan, and a much smaller oil capacity than the transverse 1.8T. This causes the oil to run hotter, which breaks it down faster, leading to sludge. VW/Audi's "fix" for this is to run synthetic oil at 5K intervals, and they are also installing larger oil filters that add 1/2qt of capacity to the oil system.

---

Your point regarding the longitudinally vs. transversely mounted engines is well taken as is the pan capacity. Thanks for explaining that! This is all good info but it doesn't change the fact that the Jetta/Beetle/Golf engines are also having the same problem. A good friend of mine here at work had to chip what was solid, coal like hardened tar away from the stainless steel pickup screen in the pan of his Jetta. According to him the return line dumps the oil back into the pan right next to the pickup. Super heated oil is getting dumped into the pan then picked right back up and sent into action again with little to no chance at cooling down.

 

[kevm14]

quote:

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Originally posted by AndyH:
VW/Audi's "fix" for this is to run synthetic oil at 5K intervals, and they are also installing larger oil filters that add 1/2qt of capacity to the oil system.

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Wow, talk about slapping a bandaid on a point blank shotgun wound.

 

[thunderchild]

Ihave an 2001 Audi TT 225. It has the 1.8 turbo engine. I use M1 5w-40 synth. I looked in the filler hole and all looked well. When I had my oil changed last week I was amazed that it still looked good after 5000 miles. Still clear and almost honey colored. I think the 5000 miles with synth is the absolute max you should go. It says in the manual you can go 10,000 miles between changes but I won't be following that advice.

 

[moribundman]

Like in any small turbo engine with a high hp/l power ratio, oil issues will manifest eventually.

Until the sludge problem had become an issue that VOA and AOA couldn't ignore anymore, there was NO effort at all by VOA and AOA to inform the customer of the type oil required for those engines. Oil type choice was left to the dealers. I clearly remember the day back in '96 my dealer told me they were going to use 20W-50 dino in my Audi during the warranty period. I said "no thanks." Until today, I've stuck with oil that meets or exceeds the actual oil requirements of my (normally aspirated) engine, and I see no signs whatsoever of any sludge. I don't even see much discoloration.

VOA and AOA have been, in my opinion, negligent when it came to informing the customer. Ironically, now that they isnist on, for example, the elusive VW505.01 oil in some engines, they are getting blamed, again.

 

[Dr. T]

Hey thunderchild, if all is well and the oil looks clean at 5k, why throw away $ and replace it with the same stuff as the new. Sure you can go 10k with that oil.

Not with an A1-rated 5-20 though....

 

[thunderchild]

Well, I have always felt safe with a 5000 mile oci. Plus I still have a warranty so if anything goes wrong I don't want to give anyone ammunition against a possible claim.

 

[Quattro Pete]

We've seen a few UOAs here showing that 10K mile intervals in 1.8t and 2.7tt engines are very much possible, assuming good synthetic oil was used. So, those initial AoA/VoA recommendations aren't completely out of whack, it's just that like moribundman mentioned, in the US, the company failed to specify what oil must be used and left it up to the dealers which for the most part used the cheapest oil they could find since the oil change services were "free" during the warranty period.

Lost in translation?

 

[Don Stevens]

This is a classic example of Synthetic vs Dino (ACEA A3 vs. SL) for turbo engines. American labeled SL oil is just not good enough for tough applications.

Turbo owners simply need to use synthetic oil if they want to prevent sludge/coking. Period.

 

[rjundi]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman:
Like in any small turbo engine with a high hp/l power ratio, oil issues will manifest eventually.

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Although it seems that the 2.0L (227HP) in the Subaru WRX is very easy on oil according based UOA's posted even one with dino.

 

[moribundman]

What I should have added to my statement is that "oil issues will manifest eventually if improper oil is used or maintenance is neglected."

I don't know what the OCI for the Subi is or if the engine per se is maybe easy on oil compared to the 1.8T, and if so, why (larger sump?).

 

[Quattro Pete]

IIRC, the cooling system on the Subie is better, including after-run oil/coolant pump, etc.

 

[Bugzii]

My tranverse 1.8T NB has the after-run coolant pump. I think all transverse 1.8Ts have it. Could that and the smaller sump (3.7 qts) and the possibility of owner's negligence be the reason for sludge?

 

[Neil Womack]

This does not effect my VW TDI. But, would that over sized after market oil cooler help this situation?

 

[Christopher Jefferson]

IMHO, the sump size is absolutely ridiculous and is the one glaring lack of forethought when Audi started designing this engine in the early 90's.

the other glaring issue is why they just assumed the americans would ever think of using a synthetic oil in the engines when 99 percent of americans have the motto, "oil is oil, and i aint spending no more money than i have to on my car.!" "The oil should never have to be changed!" etc....

why they never actually investigated our quality of oils and how dealers will ALWAYS use the cheapest stuff they can get away with for profits, is beyond me! and typical people blame the manufactuerer when it should be mostly the DEALERS!!!!! Although, VW shouldve stipulated syn oil to be used.

 

[Christopher Jefferson]

oh yeah, i forgot to mention during my previous rant that Im almost done with my 7000 miles interval on GC and the Passat 30v V6 oil filter. it brings my total capacity to 5 quarts rather than 4.3qts. next i will try the oversized 1.8t passat/A4 oil filter along with GC. hopefully that will put me a little over the 5qt margin.

it would be nice to have a filter or sump that is like 6 quarts though......

my boost controller should be here this week but, im not holding my breath for it. ill let yall know my results when i get them in.

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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IMHO, the sump size is absolutely ridiculous and is the one glaring lack of forethought when Audi started designing this engine in the early 90's.

the other glaring issue is why they just assumed the americans would ever think of using a synthetic oil in the engines when 99 percent of americans have the motto, "oil is oil, and i aint spending no more money than i have to on my car.!" "The oil should never have to be changed!" etc....

why they never actually investigated our quality of oils and how dealers will ALWAYS use the cheapest stuff they can get away with for profits, is beyond me! and typical people blame the manufactuerer when it should be mostly the DEALERS!!!!! Although, VW shouldve stipulated syn oil to be used.

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Well, Audi AG has no control over what Audi of America does. I've talked to both in the past when I had an issue with my transmission during the warranty period. While Audi AG assured me that they would have taken of replacing the defective tranny with a new one at no cost to me, VOA had the tranny (poorly) fixed, because low US prices did not allow for a free replacement. That tranny needed to be fixed again, this time outside the warranty period. I yelled all the way to Audi AG HQ, but they said there was nothing they could do, because AOA was a seperate company.

As far as the oil recommendation goes, my '96 A4 states CLEARLY, although hidden in the consumer information section at the very end, what the actual oil requirements of the engine are.