Food sources. Hunting vs. Farm Raised Meat.. a discussion
- Thread starter JT20
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I'm not a hunter, and have been near-vegetation for close to 30 years. Having said that, I'm not at all opposed to hunting. A number of the earlier comments have made good pro-hunting arguments, which I won't attempt to refute.
A few thoughts:
1. We (humans) need Vitamin B12 to live. B12 is not available from plant sources - it is only available from animals.
2. Wild animals tend to die of starvation, if they make it to old age. A hunter, hunting only mature animals, saves an animal that agonizing death. (I'm assuming the hunter is competent, and kills quickly and cleanly.)
3. Factory farming is awful, both for the animals and for the slaughterhouse workers. Hunting is much more humane.
4. Factory-farmed meat tends to be unhealthy for human consumption, too high in Omega-6 and too low in Omega-3 fatty acids.
5. Factory-farmed meat is very energy-, land-, and water-intensive.
6. As a non-vegan, I eat eggs and dairy. It can be argued that these are just as bad in many ways as factory-farmed meat.
I'll stop there - just throwing these out for discussion.
A few thoughts:
1. We (humans) need Vitamin B12 to live. B12 is not available from plant sources - it is only available from animals.
2. Wild animals tend to die of starvation, if they make it to old age. A hunter, hunting only mature animals, saves an animal that agonizing death. (I'm assuming the hunter is competent, and kills quickly and cleanly.)
3. Factory farming is awful, both for the animals and for the slaughterhouse workers. Hunting is much more humane.
4. Factory-farmed meat tends to be unhealthy for human consumption, too high in Omega-6 and too low in Omega-3 fatty acids.
5. Factory-farmed meat is very energy-, land-, and water-intensive.
6. As a non-vegan, I eat eggs and dairy. It can be argued that these are just as bad in many ways as factory-farmed meat.
I'll stop there - just throwing these out for discussion.
Everything is fine and I am liking the thread, but I did want to respond here. As people may not know, I do consider myself a VERY religious-grounded individual. I know some are not, I don't know an exact number but let us continue. I am imperfect, I sin just like everyone else and there are things I need to trust in the forgiveness for, for sure. The book I subscribe to, well, it does tell us that animals were made for us, but that again is not the point. Let me refocus a little bit and get to what I am trying to say.
I think we should be very careful. You mention the deer, that they starve. That they get rained on. Yes. I have birds and I too do a fair bit of wondering how they get through that cold night. It's colder in the air, outside, in the wind.. okay. Birds, deer.. okay. We should be careful in presuming to know how it is for them. Okay, so we are projecting what we see.. the elements, they don't seem to have grass to eat, whatever. What I would suggest is.. We can't know that. Only the man upstairs can. Yeah, I definitely did feel for Bambi. Wasn't Bambi just a little baby deer? DId he (or she) really have his Mom taken away when Mom got her head blown off? I chuckled when My Cousin Vinnie lady asked if the deer would care the outfit of the hunter. Kind of a stupid scene, but that movie was comedy and relatively funny lol, one of the better ones.
All I am saying is that there's a difference between harvesting/culling/population control/blowing the head off (or shot through the heart is a cleaner shot, isn't it? I though hunters aimed for just behind the eye. But I don't hunt) a nuisance animal like the deer mentioned that cause problems, and .. well, animals that don't. We can't do anything about how life is in the wilderness for them. But.. Nature will provide. No?
I brought up the bambi syndrome because in the squirrel thread you stated "But the animals of the wild.. are out minding their own business. Whatever they are. The cows and chickens were made for the purpose of being human food."
Your bolded sentence implied to me (maybe incorrectly) that you were assigning human emotional traits to animals, something many of us do with our dogs, cats, etc.. I entirely agree that we should not do this, nor assume how they "feel" while outdoors.
Animals survive "comfortably" outdoors because they are designed to. I find it mind boggling that the skinny, unprotected legs of cows, deer, birds, are not uncomfortable during winter's worst. They must have no nerves there? Again, I agree with your bolded statement above.
Not to get into religion, but if one considers animals sacred due to religious beliefs, that is an entirely different discussion, as is the legitimate vegetarian aspect. I have Buddhist friends that live trap household mice and release them. They still eat store bought meat though. Let's not pursue this aspect lest we get locked down.
I think that if you had the nerve to search YouTube for animal slaughterhouse, you might consider becoming a vegetarian. Buying store bought meat does not relieve a person from this aspect of meat consumption IMO.
Your bolded sentence implied to me (maybe incorrectly) that you were assigning human emotional traits to animals, something many of us do with our dogs, cats, etc.. I entirely agree that we should not do this, nor assume how they "feel" while outdoors.
Animals survive "comfortably" outdoors because they are designed to. I find it mind boggling that the skinny, unprotected legs of cows, deer, birds, are not uncomfortable during winter's worst. They must have no nerves there? Again, I agree with your bolded statement above.
Not to get into religion, but if one considers animals sacred due to religious beliefs, that is an entirely different discussion, as is the legitimate vegetarian aspect. I have Buddhist friends that live trap household mice and release them. They still eat store bought meat though. Let's not pursue this aspect lest we get locked down.
I think that if you had the nerve to search YouTube for animal slaughterhouse, you might consider becoming a vegetarian. Buying store bought meat does not relieve a person from this aspect of meat consumption IMO.
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I support hunting. I dont myself, never got I to it but many of my friends do. There is some great meat to be had. The moose in my area produce some of the finest wild meat i have ever had.
We normally buy store bought meat but have begun a big shift to buying locally produced. We have endless neighbors that are ranchers. We are working on some speckle Park beef from one of our veterinarian friends. Completely different from that high density feed lot, garbage fed sh11t you pay top dollar for at the store. Proper feed, proper inoculations and just well taken care of. Cheaper than the store bought as well.
We rarely get store eggs and have are names on the list for pork, chicken and beef this upcoming year.
We normally buy store bought meat but have begun a big shift to buying locally produced. We have endless neighbors that are ranchers. We are working on some speckle Park beef from one of our veterinarian friends. Completely different from that high density feed lot, garbage fed sh11t you pay top dollar for at the store. Proper feed, proper inoculations and just well taken care of. Cheaper than the store bought as well.
We rarely get store eggs and have are names on the list for pork, chicken and beef this upcoming year.
Yes. I asked that question to my bird friends. I show the picture of my one bird but I have more than one bird as well as other animals and of course they are all loved, they are like family. As to the birds, I asked, "Why is it that they can "chill" or get too cold inside but in the wild they just adapt, especially since birds are absolutely UNdomesticated?" They told me that.. in South America and New Zealand, they can jump in a lake if they get hot, they can cluster if they get cold, they can do a lot. In the house, they just have their cage. I let them free fly (I made sure the room is safe, of course) so they have that freedom.
I did know eventually the topic of pets would be brought up.. and I always wondered how a hunter viewed a pet.
I also agree with you and I wanted to simply touch on and move on on the religious. Not here to preach nor break board rules, though I am aware, in India, if a cow crosses the road, they are sacred and you must stop and let the cow pass. This I know (just from general knowledge of other culture, not from personal experience. Same way we know the earth is round, gravity is real, and that we have a small intestine we just can't see it. Also that air is there otherwise how would we be alive. Thought lol.)
Excellent so far.. im with you.
Ummm, depends who you are. I think a lot of hunting is way beyond food. In the state of Michigan, the largest day of liquor sales is the day before hunting season opens. But it is about fresh air, comradeship, the smell of gun powder, a feeling of self sufficiency. The list goes on and on. PS, your wife is not there telling you to take out the garbage. 
Eggs, I do hard boil eggs on occasion (maybe way too long. Shell sometimes explodes) but I do get the cheapest ones. Not sure there is any benefit to paying more for the Eggland's Best? That is another interesting aspect of the thread.
What is the difference? They are eggs.
I can reluctantly say that brown taste better than white, but the cheapest white eggs
get hardboiled and they taste just fine ..Ummm, depends who you are. I think a lot of hunting is way beyond food. In the state of Michigan, the largest day of liquor sales is the day before hunting season opens. But it is about fresh air, comradeship, the smell of gun powder, a feeling of self sufficiency. The list goes on and on. PS, your wife is not there telling you to take out the garbage.
Plot twist: She shows up on the hunt and shows you how it's done and drops one in front of all the guys with a great shot
Hey.. what's the most preferred shot anyways. Direct to the heart? The eyes? Just behind the eyes? There is a guy on YouTube that says he saw Bigfoot
says that a shot up the butt is a very clean shot. No I'm not making that up.....
I hunt. Mainly because I like the outdoors and the peace and quiet of being in nature.
I prefer to take does if I have a choice. Does aren’t as “gamey” tasting and I feel that I am doing more to contribute as a sportsman because taking a doe takes out 2 or 3 from next years herd. That’s not to say I won’t harvest a “wall hanger” buck that walks past my stand. I would gladly take him as well and grill the tenderloin while I share a beer with my buddies and tell them all about the hunt.
Hunting and fishing for food just feels American to me. Our ancestors did it and I would love and am looking forward to sharing hunting and fishing with my son when he gets older.
I do think that choosing to not hunt or fish is American too. That’s why we have choices and freedom in this country.
I prefer to take does if I have a choice. Does aren’t as “gamey” tasting and I feel that I am doing more to contribute as a sportsman because taking a doe takes out 2 or 3 from next years herd. That’s not to say I won’t harvest a “wall hanger” buck that walks past my stand. I would gladly take him as well and grill the tenderloin while I share a beer with my buddies and tell them all about the hunt.
Hunting and fishing for food just feels American to me. Our ancestors did it and I would love and am looking forward to sharing hunting and fishing with my son when he gets older.
I do think that choosing to not hunt or fish is American too. That’s why we have choices and freedom in this country.
Wasn’t there a big court case against some lady who went hunting with her husband and shot him dead.Plot twist: She shows up on the hunt and shows you how it's done and drops one in front of all the guys with a great shot
Hey.. what's the most preferred shot anyways. Direct to the heart? The eyes? Just behind the eyes? There is a guy on YouTube that says he saw Bigfoot
You guys know they are working on lab raised meat right?
It is presently cost prohibitive last I heard. but it could be a viable alternative in the foreseeable future.
Also, some of the plant based meat is quite good but the texture is a little weird for me usually and some of it is chewy... still it gets better and better.
It is presently cost prohibitive last I heard. but it could be a viable alternative in the foreseeable future.
Also, some of the plant based meat is quite good but the texture is a little weird for me usually and some of it is chewy... still it gets better and better.
If there was.. I can honestly tell you I live under a rock and don't know anything
But yeah, that sounds like an episode of Forensic Files for sure.
What do you hunt with? (I don't hunt but.. call me curious.)
.308? .30-06? ... too big? Just right? 5.56? .223? ....
It’s good to know that there is nowhere near enough hunt-able wildlife here to feed our nation.
Around here in the Columbia Valley and East Kootenay it’s mostly deer and elk. You bagged it on your guess. .308 , 30 odd 6 for Elk and .223, .222 and .243 and similar for deer. We have a lot of Whitetail and a lesser amount of Mullies.
I don’t hunt anymore, but my son goes out. I am OK with hunting and herd management.
Here are some of the varmints in my back yard.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
We had/have an arsenal of guns and bows that we used for hunting. Of the 120 acres of land, approximately 40 acres of it was bush hogged fields. I could walk out on our back porch and from the edge of the porch to the farthest corner of field in sight was approximately 550 yards. The longest shot I ever took on a deer was 328 yards with a 30-06 and 3x9 scope. I nailed her square in her left shoulder and the bullet stopped just shy of exiting her right rib cage. She didn't stumble more than about 50 yards before she dropped. I calculated the ballistics of that shot to be approximately 16.25" of bullet drop with 2.15" of sway due to wind. I had routinely rung gongs at 300 and 350 yards with that rifle so I knew about where I needed to be to hit right between them. I've killed several good sized bucks, but that doe was the one I was most proud of.
When it wasn't hunting season, I would set up 1ft x 1ft square metal gongs every 50 yards across the field for sighting in the rifles and marking the settings on each rifle. A lot of practice. When hunting season came around, I would remove the gongs and put up florescent markers at each point as a sort of range finder.
When it wasn't hunting season, I would set up 1ft x 1ft square metal gongs every 50 yards across the field for sighting in the rifles and marking the settings on each rifle. A lot of practice. When hunting season came around, I would remove the gongs and put up florescent markers at each point as a sort of range finder.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
So you know little about shooting as well. OK. Your interest seems to be with big game. Nobody tries to shoot a deer or elk in the eye or even the head. Target too small and no room for error. You're trying to cause fatal damage to the heart/lungs and put the animal down. Squirrel hunters try for a head shot with .22s
