First cold start with GC...impressions/thoughts

[97tbird]

Well, today started the car with GC for the 1st time in "cold" weather...here it was 28 F.
(I'm not counting the first start just after putting GC in, it was about 55F)

during the first 5-10 seconds after starting this morning there were some "metallic" noises that I hadn't heard before, and I felt a steady vibration(wouldn't call it knocking) through the steering wheel. the motor seemed to idle a little higher than normal, and perhaps a little noisier. then, after about 10-15 seconds everything settled down(rpm down to normal)...I don't know what to think..normal/good/bad? the car started on the 1st try like always, but "sounded" a little rough at the turn of the key.(I didn't drive the car today, though, just strated up to see how it goes)
Perhaps I should just give the motor a little time to get used to GC??
Has anyone experienced similar starts with GC at the beginning?

However, the tapping/rattling noises I had heard almost all the time at idle with Chevron 10/30 dino seemed clearly less. tomorrow I'll drive and see how it feels.

I guess I should try not to worry too much and trust the green elixir, and see what happens.
Any suggestions/thoughts are thankfully welcome, especially from GC gurus.

 

[pscholte]

97tbird,

I don't know what to tell you; my Audi A6 biturbo loves the green; no startup noise and revs as smooth as silk. No offense meant, but are you sure you weren't overly apprehensive (given your the concerns you expressed before you decided to go with the GC) and maybe that made you a little too sensitive to the noises and the vibration? My intent in asking is truly benevolent and if you heard and felt things then I guess you did, but I am not ready to indict the GC.

 

[Pablo]

28°F really isn't that cold....I'm hoping you don't have some underlying engine issue. Even a decent 10W dino should handle 28°F, so a 0W syn. should be a cake walk.

I wonder how a higher additivized synthetic would do in your car? Like a 5W-40 syn or so...

 

[97tbird]

Pscholte,

Thanks a lot for the response. No offence taken at all.
..you're probably right, I'm sometimes way too sensitive when it comes to things like this. I should try to relax and give it some time.(I'll also be doing a uoa with this GC).

And even if there are noises etc., I know it's not the oil's fault, so I'mnot going to put the blame of a good product.
some engines just don't like some oils, or there could be something wrong with my engine(although I highly doubt it).
As I said, it's not the oil's fault. GC is perhaps not for all engines.
if it gets worse, i'll switch back to a good dino(probably a mix of Pennzoil LL and 10/30).

Pscholte, if you ever wanted to thicken the GC up a bit, what oil would you use, in which ratio?

Thanks,
-nishan.

 

[pscholte]

quote:

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Originally posted by 97tbird:

Pscholte, if you ever wanted to thicken the GC up a bit, what oil would you use, in which ratio?

Thanks,
-nishan.

---

I honestly would not want to tinker with the chemistry, nor do I see the need to thicken GC given it's characteristics, but if I just HAD to thicken it I would use the Belgian 5W40 but that is tougher to find than GC. I just hope it works out for you and you enjoy using it!

 

[Dr. T]

What kind of car/engine are you using it in? A 97 TBird I take it? What is the cyl/displ of this engine? How many miles on the car?

 

[97tbird]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
What kind of car/engine are you using it in? A 97 TBird I take it? What is the cyl/displ of this engine? How many miles on the car?

---

4.6L sohc, modular v-8
92,000 miles.
no known engine problems or oil related problems.

(GC is the 1st oil in this car after endine the Arx treatment for cars under 100K miles...i did the Arx in the hope of getting the engine cleaned up before the switch from dino to to sy.oil, although I highly doubt that my engine was dirty/sudgy.)

 

[haley10]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 97tbird:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dr. T:
What kind of car/engine are you using it in? A 97 TBird I take it? What is the cyl/displ of this engine? How many miles on the car?

---

4.6L sohc, modular v-8
92,000 miles.
no known engine problems or oil related problems.

(GC is the 1st oil in this car after endine the Arx treatment for cars under 100K miles...i did the Arx in the hope of getting the engine cleaned up before the switch from dino to to sy.oil, although I highly doubt that my engine was dirty/sudgy.)

---

Even though it flows well, ever thought it might be a bit on the thick side for this Ford engine?? I don't think I would try to thicken it up any more for this Ford.

 

[97tbird]

well, I drove for the 1st time with the GC, and the motor is definitely louder. GC I'm sure is a great oil, but not for this engine. The motor runs good/normal WHILE driving, but idle is harsh/vibrating, definitely more so than with any other oil I've used. Even after being warmed up, there was a lot of idle-clatter/ticking etc. IF this is due to something being wrong with the engine--which I think is always possible--then it started right then as a co-incidence with my change to GC, but not BECAUSE of it.

However, this is my 1st oil after Arx...according to Arx-Frank, an engine can be louder after being cleaned with ARx, 'cause oil passages that were clogged before are now being lubricated??? I'm not a lubrication expert, but I really don't get that. If that's true, then the increased noise can be due Arx cleaning? As to Arx, I think it cleaned my engine a little, but it can't have been very dirty; I certainly haven't noticed any difference in performance/mileage/quietness after the rinse phase. Again, I think Arx resultes depend on how dirty an engine is to begin with.

I really want to be clear: This is not the fault of the oil, it's just that THIS is probably not the best oil for THIS engine. I still firmly believe that my engine is ok, and I'm sure I'm getting more cold-start protection with GC, as it's a thinner oil with great cold-flow characteristics, but I don't know if I want to compensate for all the clatter/vibration that accompanies it. I always thought of GC as a little experiment, and I've learned, i think, so I'm not dissapointed in any way...back to the search for a new oil, I guess. I'm trying to decide how soon I should dump the GC...
I'm becoming increasingly interested in HM and HDEO oils, and whatever Ford recommends for the modular 4.6L, I am 100% sure that my car ran best/quietest with thick 10/30 and 10/40 oils, and NEVER had a problem starting at 10F(the coldest it got here last winter)even with Pennz.HM 10/40 (very thick, 15.5 cSt at 100*C)

 

[heyjay]

You have to use common sense. If that modular Ford was quiet and smooth running a heavier oil like a 10W-40, then keep using it.

I don't think you harmed anything with one change to GC. I suppose another Science Experiment might be to try something like Mobil 1 15W-50, which appears to be the "best" Mobil 1 in terms of additive package and protection.

BTW: was there any fuel economy difference running the 10W-40 versus the lighter GC?? Just curious.

Jerry

 

[97tbird]

quote:

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Originally posted by heyjay:
You have to use common sense. If that modular Ford was quiet and smooth running a heavier oil like a 10W-40, then keep using it.

I don't think you harmed anything with one change to GC. I suppose another Science Experiment might be to try something like Mobil 1 15W-50, which appears to be the "best" Mobil 1 in terms of additive package and protection.

BTW: was there any fuel economy difference running the 10W-40 versus the lighter GC?? Just curious.

Jerry

---

---------------
Hayjay,

thanks for the comments.
I haven't run the Gc long enough to see if the fuel economy was different than with the Pennz.HM.(it wouldn't be very exact anyway, as in winter mpg generally drops)I'm sure the GC will be better in economy, 'cause it's thinner.

as to WHY i wanted to use the GC, I guess I wanted to try a syn.oil to go for extended OCI's, was curious how this oil would run in the t-bird(I'm sure I was also influenced by the fact that I just wanted to try a german oil 'cause I used to live there, and a little influenced by the enthusiasm of GC on this site, too...but I do remember at least 3 people not being satisfied with GC.

I, too, was surprised that the Pennz.HM 10/40 worked so good in this engine(although I've never done a UOA with Pennz.HM; the engine just performed really good with it, quiet and smooth).
After the Pennz.HM, I tried several lighter oils due to all the talk of Ford modulars needing them, but they resulted in idle-racket
...I should have stayed with Pennz.HM, but as I said, I needed a little experimenting-)

 

[dickwells]

What else changed when you put in the GC? I would take a hard look at the oil filter. It is not good to use a thicker than 5W oil on the 4.6 because the timing chain tensioners are oil powered. The sooner the oil pressure gets up to the tensioners the sooner the chains stop flapping around. Stick to 5Wsomething or lower.

 

[Motorbike]

Another possibilty of the " idle racket " when really cold could be the torque converter . Try putting it in drive and stalling it up .

Some of those early 4.6's did have tensioner troubles though as pointed out already . Some will syphon the oil out of the filter too .

Stick with a 30wt unless it is a severly worn engine is my opinion .

[ February 11, 2004, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

 

[haley10]

quote:

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Originally posted by dickwells:
What else changed when you put in the GC? I would take a hard look at the oil filter. It is not good to use a thicker than 5W oil on the 4.6 because the timing chain tensioners are oil powered. The sooner the oil pressure gets up to the tensioners the sooner the chains stop flapping around. Stick to 5Wsomething or lower.

---

I agree, 5W-30 is what this engine needs. The GC should be fine. Must be something else.

 

[bernhardschau]

Two weeks ago it was -35C here and I had to park the car (2002 Cavalier) were it could not be plugged in. It started OK with the GC, not like when its warm, but it started. After I got going, it felt like I was riding on bricks as the rubber was as hard as rock. Many guys next to me did not start. I don't know if that was the GC, but it did not hurt.

 

[JohnBrowning]

97tbird, It does not sound good. At -18F my 5W40 Redline fires right up with no hesitation, no noise and no delay in oil pressure. I only wear a wind breaker in 28F weather. I stow the big coat in the trunk! I would check this out.

What engine is in this? If it a modular listen to the front cover and see if the noise is comeing from their. Ford has had some timeing chain issues on these engines.

 

[97tbird]

Thanks for all the responses.

What I meant was that the general noise level of the engine is increased while idling, and not that the engine is showing signs of any "problem"; My car, at 92,000 miles, is still quieter than my wife's 2003 Elantra with 8K miles. I just noticed that it was louder than usual, that's all. There are No driveability problems, or any other ominous signs, which I'm happy about.
As to oil weight, I've read as much as I can about te 4.6L, and recently I saw a post here by a technician/mechanic which said that although Ford suddenly began recommending 5/20 and 5/30 oils, the tolerances of the 4.6L haven't changed at all, since the beginning days of this engine. T-bird/Cougars began using the 4.6L modular in 1994, and the recommended oil visc. were certainly different, then. The 5/20 oils probably didn't even exist then. Then Ford suddenly recommends 5/20 oil for all previous 4.6L's, which I find funny.

with the timing chain tensioner/oil issue, I don't know how much of a difference that makes with a 5w and a 10w. As I bought the car at 72,000 miles, the previous owner told me he had used ONLY Penzoil 10/40, which he began using as soon as the warranty ran out. If this was bad, wouldn't there have been some clear signs of it by now, at 92,000 miles? The only repairs done on my car so far is the replacement of the IAC. It was me who who changed the oil to a 5/30 Motorcraft, immediately after buying the car, 'cause I really wanted go with Ford's recommendation. It resulted in more lifter noise/vibration, which you could feel on the st.wheel. I changed back to 10/40 Motorcraft, and it was all quiet again.

I still have a lot of research to do, I think, before I decide on my next oil...I hope I can find peace soon with a good oil. I know I can alwyas go back to the Pennz.HM, but want to experiment a little more before that..Chevron HM 10/30(all year), a dino Pennz.10/30 and LL mix(in summer only, IF I try THAT), or a Chevron 10/30 and Delo400 mix(summer)...?

Thanks for all the input/advice.

 

[Dr. T]

97tbird, maybe it's something else like clogged fuel injectors...hard starts and rough idle shouldn't be oil releated per se...

I would definately not quit on the GC so fast...dump a few bottles of fuel cleaner (eg. FP or Techron) and use premium to see if anything changes.

 

[CardGuy]

New guy here and this is my first post. I've been reading nonstop for a few days and have one question. What is "GC". Thanks!

Love this site.

 

[Patman]

GC is our short form for German Castrol. Castrol has been selling Formula SLX 0w30 from Germany under the Syntec 0w30 label here in North America for about a year now. If you're looking for it, it's only sold in Autozone and it must say made in Germany on the back, not made in USA (which is the older 0w30 Syntec)