Final Outcome of All Info.

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FWIT, here's my analogy: If I go Bear hunting I wouldn't use a pocket knife (my Hero John Wayne would) nor if I wanted to kill a house fly I wouldn't whack it with Sammy's "corked" Louisville Slugger.

In oil terms I would use synthetics on the Bear (high performance/extreme conditions) and dino on the house fly (minivan grocery getter).

To me it all boils down to application.
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Originally posted by Rexman:
--snip--
But people aren't complete idiots. There's good reason they are willing to pay a lot more for synthetic--it's a much better quality of oil.

Kind of like cigars--what would you rather smoke, an expensive Cuban Monte Cristo for the finest smoking pleasure or a cheap White Owl that only costs 1/5 as much. --snip--

Synthetic is not just about extended drains--it makes the whole engine run more efficiently. You get better gas mileage, slightly more horsepower, and I believe, about half as much engine wear under demanding conditions-- even compared to today's better dino's.
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Well I'd say that no most are not idiots, about their cars, well Yes, most are. I am, maybe about the mechanics an idiot, others it's the oil. Most I think go by ADS and not an informed decision.
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A cuban CuabaGenerosa-or anything (my favorite) or [Vegas Robaina- anything, Romeo&Julieta Hermoso#1, LaGloria-anything,](my second favorites) or Punch double corona, Partagas series D#3 or a #2.... HUmmm that's a good start.

Syns are not the only animal that do Ex-Drains.
And there are many more I would wager if I were a betting man, cars with 300-400-500-600-etc that have relied on Dino!

Sure they are good, but also they can creat problems of their own,,, Like when A seal leaks, it will pour-out like it's not there with a Syn, and a Dino very often gives you much warning.
Something to think about.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Rexman:
---snip---
Do you see any world-class racing teams putting cheap 69 cent a quart dino in their racing vehicles? Of course not and for good reason. Synthetic oil is better in every way. Engines last longer, they get higher horsepower, better fuel economy, and can achieve higher rpm's down the straightaways.

Frankly, it's a little dismaying to see how many people on this board feel that conventional oil is every bit as good as synthetic. If you guys had good knowledge of how synthetics are made and what their molecular composition is, you would not make statements like these. ---snip
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Apples v Apples??? - Hugh!

Well one thing you're trying to compare a fine cognac or cigar to one that the average "JOE" would never use. You are comparing an SYN to 69Cent oil? get real, what about a High quality Dino. In fact Tell you what, I would think everyone could see that 1 the Dinos out there are not made for todays racing and 2 IF EVERYONE demanded it, they would come out with better and better Dino's... keep in mind the average car does not do 250mph down the Highway for hours on end.
As far as the Dino I use, I would guess I get just fine performance and I do get equal or more MPG and most certainly a cleaner engine than the SYN.
Dino is good, I have tried the Syn's and you know what, It is CHEAPER and JUST effective in my application to go with a HIGH grade Dino. Period.
Bottom Line! Sure you may have an application where you need to go 250MPH down the highway, and I'd like to do it with you, but I can't afford that, and I think most people wan't the MOST effective bang for their buck.

Everyone has their limits.
Heck I like Padrons, or Hoyoa de Nicaragua
but in a tight budget I'll smoke Havana Slims
:-]
cheers!
 
quote:

Originally posted by Rexman:
You are comparing an SYN to 69Cent oil? get real, what about a High quality Dino. In fact Tell you what, I would think everyone could see that 1 the Dinos out there are not made for todays racing and 2 IF EVERYONE demanded it, they would come out with better and better Dino's... keep in mind the average car does not do 250mph down the Highway for hours on end.

Hold on there, pardner. I understand a lot of folks have limited budgets--heck, I get over-spent myself sometimes. If a good quality dino works for you, go for it. Although as I said earlier, Mobil 1 at 6k intervals is actually cheaper to use than a quality dino every 3k if you do the math. Why not give yourself a little better protection for less money and less fuss, if you can.

But sorry, you will never see a world-class race team use a dino--even a high quality one. They would just not be competitive. Dinos can never be as good as synthetics--it's just a fact of life--you can give them all the additive packages you want, but their base stocks cannot equal the best synthetics.

[ August 26, 2003, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Rexman ]
 
Rexman,

I don't want to get into a long debate over this age old topic. Ounce for ounce is synthetic better than conventional? You bet ya! It's just the average consumer will not see the long-term benefits of synthetic oil. I'm not debating that conventional is just as good as synthetic. My opinion is a car in which conventional oil is changed every 3000 (for those who want to do that) will last just as long as synthetic changed at 6,000 miles. Just different way of getting to the end result.

It is comparing apples to oranges....my daily commuter to a race car. Of course they will run high priced synthetic since the engines run MUCH hotter and synthetics are better suited for that type of application. The only thing you posted that I thought was ridiculous was that a car running dino oil with 300K miles would last until 600K miles with synthetic.
 
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Originally posted by Ryansride2017:
It is comparing apples to oranges....my daily commuter to a race car. Of course they will run high priced synthetic since the engines run MUCH hotter and synthetics are better suited for that type of application.The only thing you posted that I thought was ridiculous was that a car running dino oil with 300K miles would last until 600K miles with synthetic.

Yeah, but
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. . . why wouldn't the qualities that make synthetic work so well in a race car also make your daily commuter a lot more efficient too (less engine wear, more hp, better mpg)?

That's my whole point--if the most knowledgable car guys (professional race teams) are using synthetics, why should we settle for putting lower quality oil in our $20-$50k automobiles? Sure, we don't see 250 mph speeds on our daily commutes, but those race cars don't have to put up with grueling stop-and-go driving, repeated cold starts in the morning, and long periods of idling in hot weather with the a/c on, which is pretty hard on an engine. You still want the best protection, even if you aren't Michael Schumaker.

As far as going 600k on synthetic, Mobil ran a BMW for 1 million miles doing OCI's of 7500 miles--when they broke the engine down at the end of the test, most of the engine parts still passed new car specs. So we know it can be done.

If people would just take care of the rest of the car as well as the engine, we might see a lot more million mile cars!
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[ August 26, 2003, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Rexman ]
 
Thats it...i am going to wal-mart, buying the cheapest oil they got and a FRAM filter, changing my oil one last time and running it until it dies ( I will top-up as needed, though) I may have No engine after a few miles, but i will at least get some sleep?

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quote:

In oil terms I would use synthetics on the Bear (high performance/extreme conditions) and dino on the house fly (minivan grocery getter).

To me it all boils down to application.

I used to be like that but then I realized the application was always the same: the amount of time I had to spend dinking around with oil changes. Synthetic reduces this quantity no matter what car it's in.
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Now everything gets synthetic, not because I plan on taking the Subie Outback down the Rubicon Trail, but because I only get 4 Saturdays a month and I don't like to squander 1/4th of them on things like oil changes.
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Cheers, 3MP

[ August 27, 2003, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: 3 Mad Ponchos ]
 
Just paying attention to things said here puts you ahead of most people when it comes to general maintenance, and I agree that finding a good oil and sticking with it is the best practice.
Whether it is synthetic or not depends on the use. I like synthetics, sell them, but don't use them. I would use them in high mileage applications where there is little dirt contamination or where I used a good by-pass filter. We live in a dusty area as those who have seen my site realize.
There are huge differences in dino oils. I know many people who have killed CAT engines in less than 8,000 hours of use with changes every 200 hours. I have customers on a good USA Group I Dino that put 24,000 hours on those CAT engines with changes at 400 hours. I've done extensive analysis with one customer (180 engines) where they are going getting less wear at 500 hours on Delo than 400 hours with the Group I product, so they are going to change to Delo and up their intervals to 500+ hours. But they had to fix a lot of general maintenance problems first. (filters, coolant, procedures, shop cleanliness, etc.)
 
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