Fiat and Chrysler a done deal

[Vizzy]

Folks here are so misinformed about FIAT today.

FIAT products are nothing like those of a couple of decades ago. Most are as reliable as the typical Honda, and a heck of alot more desirable to drive and own.

I'm not worried at all, I think Chrysler will be in the best shape it has been in a long time after the next 5 years when most of the new product line up is in and the results are there for the public to actually experience.

I'm personally interested in getting my hands on a terrific FIAT Grande Punto and or 500. Not to mention the MiTO. I wouldn't doubt it if we see Lancia and Alfa products to replace the [censored] passenger cars that they sell today. A few slight changes and these cars would sell pretty well in the USA, and they would actually be desirable to own!!!!!!!!!.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Folks here are so misinformed about FIAT today.

FIAT products are nothing like those of a couple of decades ago. Most are as reliable as the typical Honda, and a heck of alot more desirable to drive and own.

I'm not worried at all, I think Chrysler will be in the best shape it has been in a long time after the next 5 years when most of the new product line up is in and the results are there for the public to actually experience.

I'm personally interested in getting my hands on a terrific FIAT Grande Punto and or 500. Not to mention the MiTO. I wouldn't doubt it if we see Lancia and Alfa products to replace the [censored] passenger cars that they sell today. A few slight changes and these cars would sell pretty well in the USA, and they would actually be desirable to own!!!!!!!!!.

 

[jsharp]

Speaking of Fiat today -

Ruh-Roh, Chrysler: Fiat finishes dead last in new British J.D. Power survey

What automaker has a lower owner satisfaction score in the UK than Chrysler? The one and only company that makes automobiles less tasty to UK consumers is Fiat. Both brands, which are soon to be joined at the arm rest, scored significantly below both the industry average...

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/08/ruh-roh-chrysler-fiat-finishes-dead-last-in-new-british-j-d-p/

After looking at the line of cars they sell in the UK, all I can say is Good Luck! selling that line here.

 

[jsharp]

And then we have this small problem -

Possible Chrysler savior Fiat has low reliability scores

Fiat cars are unreliable and unsatisfying, according to two respected independent surveys of European-market vehicles.

What's more, parent company Fiat Group appears not to have enough money to pay debt that matures in the next 12 months, Standard & Poor's said Tuesday as it downgraded Fiat's ratings.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-03-31-fiat_N.htm

Even if we ignore that most what comes out of Standard & Poor's is complete fiction ( AAA rated mortgage backed securities? ), it does seem like there might be problems.

It also seems like the question we should be asking isn't if Chrysler/Fiat will succeed, but how much US taxpayer $ will potentially end up in the hands of Fiat and its creditors.

The company has decades of experience bilking a corrupt government out of cash...

 

[hone eagle]

clicky


hummm

 

[Vizzy]

I read the OPINION from Global Insight, (one of the many dime a dozen marketing research outfits) Frankly they are behind the times. The younger generations in the USA are much more willing to look into the option of purchasing something different especially if it is interesting and has good qualities (performance, fun to drive, economical, ect.)I also had to laugh when the guy from GI mentions that a potential FIAT buyer is even considering a Lexus, BMW, or Mercedes. That is utter nonsense, FIAT compete with VW, Toyota, Honda, Renault, they are not a premium brand and aren't expected to be.

Not to mention that the only catagories in cars that has been exploding in sales the past several years is compact and subcompact models.

With gas prices expected to soar yet again and a consumer that is ready to accept that less is more. Smaller is better. I think the products that come from Chrysler/FIAT will be quite successful.

Chrysler also has a very good quality control program in effect since Nardelli took over and it has shown massive improvements in the quality and reliability of its products. I would bet that FIAT will continue to utilize this program in the US when its own products arrrive here.

 

[hone eagle]

True
Windsor assembly has such good quality that they raised VW's corporate quality rating because of the rebadged town and country mini van,But will Fiat listen and learn from Chrysler?

 

[rshaw125]

Only the government would be convinced that Fiat will save Chrysler.
Chrysler will fade away.

 

[Vizzy]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Only the government would be convinced that Fiat will save Chrysler.
Chrysler will fade away.


You're probably too young to remember when the taxpayer bailed out a failing Chrysler about 30 years ago or so. The end result was that Chrysler ended up recovering fully and Chrysler repayed the loan back early with interest. The taxpayer made money on that deal, I'd wager that something similar will happen again.

 

[DeeAgeaux]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy
I

Chrysler also has a very good quality control program in effect since Nardelli took over and it has shown massive improvements in the quality and reliability of its products. .


Chrysler has gone from complete utter [censored] to just plain utter [censored].

 

[Vizzy]

Actually some vehicles like the maligned Caliber is actually rated decently by CR. Reliability is on par with other products in its class like the Civic and Corolla, not bad at all really.

I don't like the Caliber that much or any other current Chrysler products but I am looking forward to products like the FIAT Grande Punto, 500, and Alfa Romeo MiTo, and Lancia as well.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Only the government would be convinced that Fiat will save Chrysler.
Chrysler will fade away.


You're probably too young to remember when the taxpayer bailed out a failing Chrysler about 30 years ago or so. The end result was that Chrysler ended up recovering fully and Chrysler repayed the loan back early with interest. The taxpayer made money on that deal, I'd wager that something similar will happen again.


Chrysler was not purchased (and subsequently run) by an overseas company at that point. It was turned around by Lee Iaccoca, and done from the INSIDE.

The last time that (overseas buyer) happened (Daimler) things at Chrysler got WORSE, not better.......

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Only the government would be convinced that Fiat will save Chrysler.
Chrysler will fade away.


You're probably too young to remember when the taxpayer bailed out a failing Chrysler about 30 years ago or so. The end result was that Chrysler ended up recovering fully and Chrysler repayed the loan back early with interest. The taxpayer made money on that deal, I'd wager that something similar will happen again.


Chrysler was not purchased (and subsequently run) by an overseas company at that point. It was turned around by Lee Iaccoca, and done from the INSIDE.

The last time that (overseas buyer) happened (Daimler) things at Chrysler got WORSE, not better.......


Going to be hard for FIAT to "run" Chryselr with only a 35% share. This is a merger and sharing of technologies not a complete take over.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy

You're probably too young to remember when the taxpayer bailed out a failing Chrysler about 30 years ago or so. The end result was that Chrysler ended up recovering fully and Chrysler repayed the loan back early with interest. The taxpayer made money on that deal, I'd wager that something similar will happen again.

Do you think the stock the government has is worth $30 billion on the open market? Plus the billions more that we will be pumping into it after the merger?
After what the government has done to the rule of law, no one wants to touch this company with a 100 ft. pole. Just as it is with every other "aided" company. The compensation rules alone will cause a brain drain at the company.

At that assumes that we can believe

the gov. that they actually don't want run the car companies.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Only the government would be convinced that Fiat will save Chrysler.
Chrysler will fade away.


You're probably too young to remember when the taxpayer bailed out a failing Chrysler about 30 years ago or so. The end result was that Chrysler ended up recovering fully and Chrysler repayed the loan back early with interest. The taxpayer made money on that deal, I'd wager that something similar will happen again.


Chrysler was not purchased (and subsequently run) by an overseas company at that point. It was turned around by Lee Iaccoca, and done from the INSIDE.

The last time that (overseas buyer) happened (Daimler) things at Chrysler got WORSE, not better.......


Going to be hard for FIAT to "run" Chryselr with only a 35% share. This is a merger and sharing of technologies not a complete take over.


Didn't they "share technology" with Dailmer though? That didn't seem to work out all that well for them either......

 

[VNTS]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Only the government would be convinced that Fiat will save Chrysler.
Chrysler will fade away.


You're probably too young to remember when the taxpayer bailed out a failing Chrysler about 30 years ago or so. The end result was that Chrysler ended up recovering fully and Chrysler repayed the loan back early with interest. The taxpayer made money on that deal, I'd wager that something similar will happen again.


Chrysler was not purchased (and subsequently run) by an overseas company at that point. It was turned around by Lee Iaccoca, and done from the INSIDE.

The last time that (overseas buyer) happened (Daimler) things at Chrysler got WORSE, not better.......


Going to be hard for FIAT to "run" Chryselr with only a 35% share. This is a merger and sharing of technologies not a complete take over.


Didn't they "share technology" with Dailmer though? That didn't seem to work out all that well for them either......


Yes, let see Dumbler took the 12 billion in cash Chrysler had on hand in 98, trashed their Caita system for the Dumbler Cadd system,
booked all R$D expenses on Chryslers books for 5years, had JTE group fix the Mercedes SUV rollover problem cause they didnt have a clue, dumped a overpriced Crossfire on them and gave them a rear suspension for the LX and an overpriced 5 speed. Great deal for chrysler

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: VNTS
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Only the government would be convinced that Fiat will save Chrysler.
Chrysler will fade away.


You're probably too young to remember when the taxpayer bailed out a failing Chrysler about 30 years ago or so. The end result was that Chrysler ended up recovering fully and Chrysler repayed the loan back early with interest. The taxpayer made money on that deal, I'd wager that something similar will happen again.


Chrysler was not purchased (and subsequently run) by an overseas company at that point. It was turned around by Lee Iaccoca, and done from the INSIDE.

The last time that (overseas buyer) happened (Daimler) things at Chrysler got WORSE, not better.......


Going to be hard for FIAT to "run" Chryselr with only a 35% share. This is a merger and sharing of technologies not a complete take over.


Didn't they "share technology" with Dailmer though? That didn't seem to work out all that well for them either......


Yes, let see Dumbler took the 12 billion in cash Chrysler had on hand in 98, trashed their Caita system for the Dumbler Cadd system,
booked all R$D expenses on Chryslers books for 5years, had JTE group fix the Mercedes SUV rollover problem cause they didnt have a clue, dumped a overpriced Crossfire on them and gave them a rear suspension for the LX and an overpriced 5 speed. Great deal for chrysler

LMAO!!! Great deal indeed!

 

[rszappa1]

Another Feren car maker....

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Only the government would be convinced that Fiat will save Chrysler.
Chrysler will fade away.


You're probably too young to remember when the taxpayer bailed out a failing Chrysler about 30 years ago or so. The end result was that Chrysler ended up recovering fully and Chrysler repayed the loan back early with interest. The taxpayer made money on that deal, I'd wager that something similar will happen again.


Chrysler was not purchased (and subsequently run) by an overseas company at that point. It was turned around by Lee Iaccoca, and done from the INSIDE.

The last time that (overseas buyer) happened (Daimler) things at Chrysler got WORSE, not better.......


Going to be hard for FIAT to "run" Chryselr with only a 35% share. This is a merger and sharing of technologies not a complete take over.


Didn't they "share technology" with Dailmer though? That didn't seem to work out all that well for them either......


The technology sharing was not an issue with the Daimler merger. Actually it brought some very good technology to Chrysler. The issue there was Daimler received a controlling stake/ownership and ran through all of Chrylser's cash reserves and just trashed the company.

FIAT will not get a majority ownership stake( reports of their stake in the company run anywhere from 20-35% ). The merger is to bring their more fuel efficient cars and technology to Chrylser( what Chrysler gets )and it gives them a market for their vehicles( what FIAT gets ). FIAT will have "some" say in things at Crysler definitely( believe some of their upper management is being put into high positions at Chrysler )but they are not going to run Chrylser.

FIAT will not have the power to do what Daimler did. Assuming this helps turn things around for Chrysler, which I believe it will even though many on here don't, FIAT will not be able to take all of Chrysler's cash.

It is similar when you talk about it( ie; a merger )but it is totally different in actuality. FIAT will not have the same power over the company Daimler did as defacto owners.

 

[VNTS]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Only the government would be convinced that Fiat will save Chrysler.
Chrysler will fade away.


You're probably too young to remember when the taxpayer bailed out a failing Chrysler about 30 years ago or so. The end result was that Chrysler ended up recovering fully and Chrysler repayed the loan back early with interest. The taxpayer made money on that deal, I'd wager that something similar will happen again.


Chrysler was not purchased (and subsequently run) by an overseas company at that point. It was turned around by Lee Iaccoca, and done from the INSIDE.

The last time that (overseas buyer) happened (Daimler) things at Chrysler got WORSE, not better.......


Going to be hard for FIAT to "run" Chryselr with only a 35% share. This is a merger and sharing of technologies not a complete take over.


Didn't they "share technology" with Dailmer though? That didn't seem to work out all that well for them either......


The technology sharing was not an issue with the Daimler merger. Actually it brought some very good technology to Chrysler. The issue there was Daimler received a controlling stake/ownership and ran through all of Chrylser's cash reserves and just trashed the company.

FIAT will not get a majority ownership stake( reports of their stake in the company run anywhere from 20-35% ). The merger is to bring their more fuel efficient cars and technology to Chrylser( what Chrysler gets )and it gives them a market for their vehicles( what FIAT gets ). FIAT will have "some" say in things at Crysler definitely( believe some of their upper management is being put into high positions at Chrysler )but they are not going to run Chrylser.

FIAT will not have the power to do what Daimler did. Assuming this helps turn things around for Chrysler, which I believe it will even though many on here don't, FIAT will not be able to take all of Chrysler's cash.

It is similar when you talk about it( ie; a merger )but it is totally different in actuality. FIAT will not have the same power over the company Daimler did as defacto owners.



I dont think there is much left to take?? Whereas Dumbler people other than Wolfgang and Dieter, had huge egos, didnt understand mass production, refused to listen to Chrysler engineers etc, I think Fiat will probably work better and listen. Only time will tell how things work out. At least here, it isnt a takeover.

Per Dumbler, Chrysler never got squat from them because it was against the rules. A guy on another board who was a JTE engineer who was high up, explained a lot of things that went on. Dumbler refused to use any tech Chrysler had that was better, forced all the [censored] Dumbler electronics into DC Cars, canned their CAtia system which was light years ahead of Dumblers, booked all the R&D costs onto Chryslers books(hence it looked like Chrysler was loosing money year afte year), Charged Chrysler 500$ per unit liscensing fee for the 5spd auto made at Kokomo which goes into the LX's, etc. Only good thing that came out of the mess was they got a rear drive car with some E-class DNA in the rear suspension and that is about it.