Fantastic claims for some synthetics

[AcuraSLX]

The answer may lie in the engines friction rating.
If you put synthetic in an older 454 ci GM V8 there might be a significant improvement. If you put synthetic in an late model Volvo 4 cyl you would see little improvement because it is a low friction design. The 454 ci is a high friction design.
I thnk you might have a measurable improvement in the use of synthetic axle fluids.
YMMV

 

[Terry]

Please listen up:

I have been testing oil for a long time and right now ( about to change a bit with SM in Fall) with the current PCMO chemistries on the market the average car owner can use a average quality $1 qt SL rated oil, treat it properly with LubeControl and use Fuel Power to keep top end clean, periodically clean engine with Auto-RX and get the same cleanliness and performance you will see using "high end" synthetics. Up to 10,000 miles using at least an annual analysis to avoid and predict problems.

If you run a high performance engine or beat the fire out of the engine then the additional thermal stability of a "syn" may be beneficial. A well added syn is hard to beat. For the average Joe it may be overkill.

5 years ago I could not have said this from an analysis perspective, hydrocracking and new non organometallic adds have changed the whole scene.

The extended drain capabilities of a Syn are unmatched but I can put a blend using Auto- RX and LC right up against about any syn made for the same interval cheaper with same or lower wear rates since I can moderate oxidative rates and development in the host oil.


If you are using a motor oil that is well additized and has a primary group II or higher base, and don't mind spending pennies a ounce for LC/FP and a annual Auto-RX cleaning then you MAY be wasting money on "synthetics".

The distinction is being lost in the realities of chemistry and the ability of formulators to procure efficiencies in high performance syn adds and base oils at lower costs.

GC 0w-30 may be the first real US introduced near syn that has such capabilites, of course castrol charges like it is Redline !

For Max performance or sinfully long drains in a hot running engine then RoyaL Purple, Amsoil, Redline,NEO,and others are smart.

Use analysis to find out what works for you.
Save fuel and money by using appropriate technology for your needs, leave the marketing claims to the other enthusiast boards.

Terry

 

[doitmyself]

Could someone (I don't know all the costs) please post some "average" annual numbers of using synthetic vs. running dino with LC, FP, and Auto RX?

Havoline is $1.26/qt at Walmart and M1 is about $19.00 for 5 qt. bottle.

Thanks

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

I do believe those claims are inflated for MPG savings, but not unwarranted. Just got back a from a 1,200 mile trip that brought me through the hills outside Pittsburgh, PA. Though for sure that mileage would suffer climbing all those hills on the Interstates, but it didn't...I averaged 38.3MPG without the A/C on and 34.2MPG with the A/C on. My car is rated at 35MPG on the highway. Currently using M1 5w-30.

However... moreover with what Terry stated...I ran an Auto-Rx treatment prior to this M1 run. I'm sure that was instrumental in cleaning things up in then engine so the full synth capabilities could be realized. With an unclean engine, I can't see how any synthetic could achieve those claims.

 

[gudmund]

as far as the Lucas claim, I feel it is working for me. The best I ever got with my 98 Suzuki Swift on a long run was 46mpg and the EPA rating of 39to43 average back and forth to work. Have been using the Lucas UCL for over 30thou so far and have averaged 41to45 since along with getting 48/50 on a long freeway run. Just got back from a 750mile run yesterday on 15.6gal(48.07mpg). I had to buy the 4gal case to get the gal size when I bought it which I also feel I got a good price on-$16.00 per gal. I put 2oz in per 6to8 gal fill which figures out to about .12per oz/.25 per fill. At today gas prices(around $2.30per gallon here)I feel it is paying for itself. Got a friend using it now with his 00 S-10 4cyl, he was getting 28-29 and now is just over 30mpg. So far he thinks its working also.

 

[haley10]

Ekpolk, with fuel prices on the rise, I'll bet you will end up dumping the GC anyway.

Even the dreaded N/A Syntec will show you better results here I think. It ain't bad stuff.

The GC may be a bit more viscous than necessary and perhaps lack some friction modification that these engines like.

GC isn't the panacea for all engines.

Sounds like your engine and valve train just doesn't like the GC.

 

[novadude]

Very Informative, Terry. (As always)

I, too, would like you to elaborate further on the "near syn" GC comment.

 

[Pablo]

Terry - WOW - LC hit a goldmine when they got you on board.

I can say I'm a believer in FP. I think it works.

I can draw no conclusions on LC. Using it in one car, nothing special so far. I guess I should do an analysis soon, but it will be barely 5000 miles. This car did 20K on Amsoil 5W-30 and has been on Asmoil for a long time, so it's very clean.

I guess I want to see the whole increased solvent effect of LC, but I can't get my Amsoil to thicken up like 3MP. I must think this happens on cars with interesting emmsions controls, blowby or something...something that causes hot oxidative effects. Maybe at the end of the Amsoil run in 3MP's car, add a load of LC and see what happens !

 

[Audi Junkie]

quote:

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8 Castrol R 20-30 micron 15-100 micron
9 Torco 15-20 micron 15-100 micron
10 Royal Purple 15-20 micron 15-100 micron
11 Castrol SLX 20-25 micron 15-100 micron

---

How can they rank Castrol R over SLX when the numbers are "worse". Typical Amsoil nonsense. Can I get some Vitamans and Fertilizer with that oil too?

Anyway, I just dumped my fresh GC in favour of thick 15w-40 Pennz LL to de-ester my engine for Auto-Rx. I lost 1.5 mpg, right in line with what Audi/Castrol claim, 5.54%. My car sounds quieter overall, although raspier. Sounds good in general. It runs 10-15 degrees hotter too.

 

[Spector]

However, we need to look at a cost comparison as well.

15,000 miles using Amsoil 0W30 for example so about $30-$35 for oil

Using the dino with good additives $ 7-8 for oil

Add in the LC at $$$ for the change interval plus Fp for the gas used in 15,000 miles then add in a bottle of RX once a year at $20 plus (also the rinse phase is 2000 miles) then a Dyson analysis at $35 and what do we have for cost??????????? Engine will be as clean but at how much hassle?

Just bringing up a point, there are a zillion other factors to look at as well.

 

[Terry]

Pabs said ;"Terry - WOW - LC hit a goldmine when they got you on board."

They sure did cause I hate solvents and this stuff works well, unlike any other solvent chemistry I have attempted to use in 25 years.

Like Auto-RX I tell my friends what works. You won't find me publicly associating my good name with any other adds

You are very fortunate using Amsoil untreated Pabs as that oil characteristically thickens out of grade in 90 % of my customers that use it untreated. I blame AJ and Lubrizol. I think they may have a fix in but I am still seeing that issue without LC to control oxidation. You must have some very tight sealing engines.

Spector LC costs about .16 to .20c an ounce ,a typical 5 qt engine would use no more than 20 to 30 ounces in 15,000 miles. That puts you at an additional $4 to $6 per 15,000 miles of LC ( probably less in reality) or $10 to $11 for a clean oil run using $1 a qt oil.

Using LC you can normally run the same oil filter too as the loading is reduced significantly dropping insolubles.

FP is a fuel add and you did not take that into effect on the Amsoil price comparo.


Hey I was planning on the oil analysis cost to be a given with this group ! Just think of all the $ I save you and your car in mechanical and fuel costs !


Castrol GC and SLX,R "near syn" comments;

I THINK (read guess) that GC is a blend of PAO and a new FUCHS base that is very advanced and I am seeing very good results with this chemistry in analysis results.I don't know how to classify that base oil.

I am currently working on an independent bench test of the GC product to share here. Depending on final costs involved I may share or sell some of that to whoever is interested.


I am using GC in my cars right now and am happy with it.

Man when I tell it like it is and name brands folks sure come out of the closet.

 

[Pablo]

First of all, Audi Junkie, what are you referring to? Not sure what those numbers are???? You just felt like taking a slap at Amsoil??? Not sure what your point is?

Terry wrote:

quote:

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Man when I tell it like it is and name brands folks sure come out of the closet.

---

Terry we know you are pro-LC and Redline, so you are a "name brand" guy, too. I was thinking I was out of the closet a LONG time ago.

quote:

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You are very fortunate using Amsoil untreated Pabs as that oil characteristically thickens out of grade in 90 % of my customers that use it untreated......You must have some very tight sealing engines.

---

Would agree with you in certain cases, in certain engines SOME of Amsoil's oils used to thicken in particular the ASL 5W-30. It certainly is thickening in the 3MP study and I know that makes you feel good, but I totally disagree with your made up 90% number. My old beater turbo is not that tight sealing. It's just clean. I have almost 250000 miles on it. Change the oil every 10,000 miles regardless of time and that actually is greater than Amsoil's recommendation.

Again, I don't argue that LC is a good product.

 

[yannis]

Some tips from VW on fuel saving:
Keep to the recommended speed on motorways ? Driving at 130 km/h (80 mph) instead of 150 km/h (90 mph) on the motorway results in a saving of two liters every 100 kilometers (over 3/4 of a gallon every 100 miles).
New high-performance oils reduce friction losses in the engine ? By changing to SAE 0W-30 or 0W-40 oils, you can reduce fuel consumption by up to 5 percent.
Have the engine checked regularly ? A regular inspection of the engine in a specialist workshop ensures optimum engine performance.
Check your tyre pressures regularly ? Inadequately inflated tyres result in increased consumption and accelerated tyre wear. Increasing the specified inflation pressure by 0.2 to 0.4 bar can save up to 5 percent fuel. There is no need for concern: The pressure at which the tyre would burst is ten times greater than this.

for more info
web page

[ May 25, 2004, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: yannis ]

 

[Terry]

Pabs after all this time I thought you knew me better than that.

 

[Terry]

Pabs, "feelings" about oil brand have nothing to do with running a oil analysis business.

I promote RL oil in certain applications because it is primarily a POE based heavily additized motor oil that the average guy can procure.

If AJ made a similar product it would be a suggested product for the same reasons.


I don't sell ANY oil or add products, please keep that in mind.

If you offend a specific product the only way you get a response from me will be if the claims are incorrect based on what I SEE in oil analysis results.

I posted the facts as I see them in analysis results not "made up" data from "feelings".

Let Amsoil and ANY other product defend itself in analysis and performance and leave the touchy feely marketing crap at the store.

Terry

 

[Audi Junkie]

quote:

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http://www.xl7500.com/fast fours.htm

check it out. That SLX is looking bad?

---

 

[Ghillie]

Didnt want to start a new thread.

Did a search: Came up a big Goose Egg!

Might be a bit

but I have a question reguarding synth oils.

What is the diff between POE base oils and PAO base oils.

I asked Terry a question and his answer kinda threw me into a funk.

 

[Ghillie]

Hockey PuK!! forgot the last question.

Which type of base oil is more beneficial?
In a daily driver.

[ May 25, 2004, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[Pablo]

Terry - you said a figure of 90%. I need to see the data. PM or email me if you can't publicly post data.

AudiJunkie - I didn't read that whole site, but that is NOT Amsoil's official site. Did you think it is???? It's just a dealer site. That is NOT Amsoil test data, but rather some magazine Fast Fours or something. Please retract your words.

I get a little sick of defense. Amsoil CAN stand on it's own. These attacks - based on what??? Based on BS. Audi Junkie - did you really think that through? You said:

quote:

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How can they rank Castrol R over SLX when the numbers are "worse". Typical Amsoil nonsense. Can I get some Vitamans and Fertilizer with that oil too

---

Please retract your statement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sick of this CRAP, moderators!

 

[Bio-T]

I don't think this string is progressing properly, the learning curve is wavering. Quoting a questionable site for data is like Ace Hardware claiming their API oil is better than Red Line.

Lets move to better things.

[ May 26, 2004, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]