Fairly comprehensive ingredient explanation for a boutique style oil.

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so for us regular guys it means?? sounds like they are saying their PAO based oils with special VII can be made to perform as good as more costly aka Ester based oils. we need a pro here for his technical expertise!!
 
Looks to me that they use a PAO, throw in some ester for polarity and add a small amount of particular VI in their additive package. I'm no scientist and the interpretation from German to English is sometimes puzzling.
 
Some ester is ok but too much needs balancing with additives to combat seal swelling and also to combat it's natural ability to absorb and retain moisture. Ester is good in limited portions and when the right additives to control it are in place. It is also a good higher end additive carrier and provides some cleaning benefit as well but it is costly and it's why companies like M1 will use Grp-III instead because it's benign for the most part to seals and carries additives well and when boosted with PAO it can be used for longer drain intervals.
 
I have been using esters for 8 years with cutting filters open, there are no issues with modern esters and haven't been since they solved the issues after they were first made. Backed up with uao's and 50 other guys using esters just as long. it is disinformation.

Hey OP thanks for that pdf, great info. Getting close to the golden egg, self healing vii's.
 
Read what I wrote. Esters are fine when balanced with proper additives and/or other groups of oils to offset their natural seal swelling effects and attraction of moisture. It's the Esters properties not me making it up. Ask someone like Molakule if you don't want to believe me.
 
Right … and use utility amounts of ester and AN … and every single formula is a different blend …
But that's just dealers choice when making them all and not going full tilt GTL …
 
It is a non issue, hasn't been an issue since about the times we had the pony express for a post office. No need to make people fear something that has never happened with any ester oil on the market today.
 
Originally Posted by burla
It is a non issue, hasn't been an issue since about the times we had the pony express for a post office. No need to make people fear something that has never happened with any ester oil on the market today.

Where am I promoting fear. You clearly aren't reading what I posted above... I'm explaining the benefits and considerations to take into account with esters.
 
Esters can be used at higher levels than many might think. Indeed the first synthetic oils in the early 70s were 100% ester based without issues. The primary limiting factor is cost, and the fact that additives respond differently in many esters, requiring more development resources.

That said, seal swell can be an issue depending which esters are used. Some esters have very little seal swell characteristics (a little can be desirable) while others such as low viscosity highly polar esters can swell seals excessively. Personally I would not use highly polar esters at over 20% of the base oil blend unless balanced with some seal shrinking PAOs, although I am not aware of any seal problems in the field from higher doses. You also shouldn't need more than 20% to enjoy some of the benefits of additive solubility, seal balance, lubricity, low volatility and cleanliness. If you want to use more for a high performance oil, than PAO balancing is wise.

Water absorbance from esters is not a field issue. Most esters will only solubilize 0.2% water, and it evaporates off in use. Again it comes down to using the right product for the application. Esters are a very broad field of chemistry with very wide property ranges. The esters used in motor oils are selected specifically for this use, and like all ingredients are balance as necessary with the rest of the components.
 
Ravenol's chart regarding shear loss is frankly quite misleading for all sorts of reasons. It wants you to believe that their PAO based 5W40 oils shear far less in real life than your average Group III 5W40 formulated with 'standard OCP VII.

First the obvious thing; the Kurt-Orbahn shear test 'breaks' VII chains by forcing hot oil under pressure through a FUEL INJECTOR! No one on BITOG owns an engine where engine oil is actually forced through a fuel injector. The crazy mechanical stresses imposed on the oil in this silly test are orders of magnitude higher than what any oil will see traversing the bearings, negotiating the galleries, etc. The bog standard KO 30 cycle test for PCMOs is already considered extreme so adding further shear cycles on the KO just to exacerbate shear (to 90, 180 & 270) is getting way beyond ridiculous.

And they're asking you to believe that this all correlates to a BMW doing 10,000 km around a race track. What utter drivel! Where are the overlayed data points which show the correspondance?? I don't believe it.

And what Group III are they putting up against their own oils; the best or the worst because they do differ. Take a simple 1st generation, Hydrocracker bottoms stream Group III from 20 years ago and it be way worse than the stuff coming out of some latest Yubase plants.

And what means standard OCP? 22 SSI or even 35 SSI possibly? And if you put these up against a zero SSI Hydrogenated Styrene Diene VII (as opposed to a 22 SSI HSD like Sv 261) aren't you simple frigging the comparison to widen the difference? A decent Group III with a zero SSI HSD VII is going to give results that are way more comparable.
 
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Originally Posted by burla
It is a non issue, hasn't been an issue since about the times we had the pony express for a post office. No need to make people fear something that has never happened with any ester oil on the market today.



Where are these ester based oils burla?
 
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