Factory fill Detroit DD13 ; 29,617 miles

[dustyroads]

I've never bothered with uoa of the factory fill on my new trucks for obvious reasons but...curiosity got the best of me this time. Posting for entertainment but it's actually pretty boring.

Detroit DD13 engine
29,617 miles on both engine and oil (755 hours)
Total capacity is 42-44 quarts (only 38 required for an oil change, the rest remains within the engine)

Iron 31
Chromium 3
Lead 0
Copper 331
Tin 6
Aluminum 38
Nickel 1
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0

Silicon 5
Sodium 9
Potassium 96
Water Coolant no

Magnesium 470
Calcium 1534
Barium 2
Phosphorus 915
Zinc 1140
Moly 57
Boron 83

Viscosity cSt @ 100C 11.4
Fuel Soot (infrared) 0.3%
TBN 3.6

ALS TRIBOLOGY (Atlanta) via NAPA kit

The aluminum and potassium are from the brazing flux inside the intercooler (according to Detroit info). Copper from oil cooler. Otherwise, not much going on.

 

[mbacfp]

Thanks for sharing. Excuse my ignorance, does your truck do regens?

 

[Popsy]

Looks pretty good for a FF. The add pack seem pretty weak in detergent, or I am wrong? I guess the oil capacity help.

 

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: mbacfp
Thanks for sharing. Excuse my ignorance, does your truck do regens?


It does but unless it's idling I don't know it. To the best of my knowledge, it gets by with passive regeneration when driving (that's how my Volvo's operated anyway) due to putting enough load on it to make good heat.

When I park and idle to maintain comfy temps inside the cab, it will idle 6-8 hours (@ 900 rpm) before it does an active regen. I'm still not very knowledgeable about the Detroit engine, at least in the technicalities.

 

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: Popsy
Looks pretty good for a FF. The add pack seem pretty weak in detergent, or I am wrong? I guess the oil capacity help.


It doesn't look amazing but my guess is that the Boron was probably at least 400+ ppm in virgin form. In my heavy duty diesels, using an oil like Delo 400LE with 500+ ppm (boron) showing in a VOA, will drop down to 100-200 ppm after 20k miles of use. Molakule says he believes the Boron is masked by acid in the oil as it builds throughout the oci.

Anyway, it looks similar to a Delo product but who knows?

 

[Popsy]

Thank you for that piece of information, didn't know that Boron was "consumed" (or masked) so much within an OCI.
Isn't some Delo 10W30 the FF for Detroit?

 

[dustyroads]

It's a 10W30 bit I'm clueless about brand. I thought it might be a Delo product but I don't have any information...just guesses.

 

[dustyroads]

I know these engines are put on a dyno before being shipped from the factory and apparently the oil is drained, but hard to believe how clean this oil is for a factory fill. No extra silicon, just what is expected in a normal broke in engine.

 

[dustyroads]

I fired up the Google machine and found an announcement from February 2014 saying that Detroit engines were to be filled with Delvac 1300 Super 15W40 for some and 10W30 for the Freightliner Cascadia Evolution (mine is a Cascadia). Contracts can change but I suspect this oil is indeed the Delvac.

If only I could get my hands on some Delvac 1300 10W30...I've never seen it out here on the road. Maybe I should order some and carry it in the truck until oil change time. The Delvac Elite semi-synthetic i put in is fine, but probably not necessary.

 

[CT8]

The viscosity is with in the 30 wt and the 3.6 tbn seems the oil is holding up well. The mileage is close enough to 30,000 miles to say wow!

 

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: CT8
The viscosity is with in the 30 wt and the 3.6 tbn seems the oil is holding up well. The mileage is close enough to 30,000 miles to say wow!


As an OTR guy getting decent fuel economy, the factory approved oci is 50K miles, so 30K miles is no problem. Truck is a 2016 Freightliner Cascadia.

I've never done super short oci's with the factory fill (on big rigs) but I never realized how ready to go they were from the factory. The heavy duties must get special treatment during their build process. It's got to be more than just putting it on a dyno for awhile then draining that oil. Hopefully my fellow owner/ops will see this and realize there's no need to do short oci's to rinse out their new engines.

I burned 3,767 gallons of fuel during this oci. Oil remained at full mark throughout oci.

450 HP @ 1,625 RPM
1650 lb-ft torque @ 975 rpm

 

[dustyroads]

Second oci (mid June to early October)

Miles on engine: 67,400 (1,950 hours)

Miles on the oil: 37,783 (1,195 hours)

Mobil Delvac Elite 10W30

Iron 46
Chromium 10
Lead 12
Copper 150
Tin 6
Aluminum 61
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0

Silicon 6
Sodium 5
Potassium 131
Water Coolant no

Magnesium 895
Calcium 1576
Barium Phosphorus 1054
Zinc 1417
Moly 59
Boron 16

Viscosity cSt @ 100C = 12.4
Fuel = Soot (infrared) 0.9%

Per Detroit Diesel, copper can reach 500 ppm in the first sample due to leaching of the oil cooler and is harmless. It's on the way down now.

In the first three samples, aluminum may be as high as 150 ppm and potassium may be as high as 300 ppm. The aluminum and potassium are leached from the brazing flux in the intercooler and enter via the air intake.

I was very familiar with the copper leaching from the oil cooler, but until I got this truck and Detroit's information, I was unaware of anything being leached from a metal via air passing over it.

This sample was tested by ALS in Kansas City, Ks via a Delvac Accutrack kit. I used that kit because it came with a pre-labeled/pre-paid shipping bag with a USPS tracking number. Sorry no TBN with the Delvac kit.

Regarding the hours in service, approximately 478 were idling and about 717 were under load. My main business is hauling 44k-50k lbs for a gross weight of 74k-80k lbs. I've tried auxiliary power units to reduce idling in the past but they were expensive and still troublesome, so I'm just going with Detroit's Optimized Idle which cut the total idle time by at least 50%.

I know that this post is useless to all but my fellow owner / operators (with a DD13 engine) but it's something different to look at.

 

[CT8]

I enjoy the UOAs and discussion.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: CT8
I enjoy the UOAs and discussion.


X2. I'm in for updates.

I was surprised you ran the factory fill so long. I would have dumped it earlier to help flush out break in metals. No need for them to be circulating for 30k miles, filing down the tolerances of the engine internals.

It may seem like a lot of wasted oil but I look at it as operating cost of a new engine.

 

[CT8]

What is the per mile cost these days of a OTR freight truck these days??

 

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: CT8
What is the per mile cost these days of a OTR freight truck these days??


It can vary considerably depending on your total expenses and the amount of miles you drive. This year through September, I'm just under 80 cents per mile. That is counting every expense. I'm running less miles than I used to as well.

 

[dustyroads]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: CT8
I enjoy the UOAs and discussion.


X2. I'm in for updates.

I was surprised you ran the factory fill so long. I would have dumped it earlier to help flush out break in metals. No need for them to be circulating for 30k miles, filing down the tolerances of the engine internals.

It may seem like a lot of wasted oil but I look at it as operating cost of a new engine.


I understand your thinking but it's not like a car/pickup engine. All heavy duty diesels are assembled and put on a dyno at the engine factory. That oil gets drained before shipping to the truck factory, and gets a fresh fill there. All of my trucks (engines) have been so good to me. Never an issue with oil use and they last forever.

This is my fifth new truck purchase (along with three used trucks) and I've never drained the factory fill way early. I was still way below the Detroit guidelines for an oci and it was even better than I thought it would be.

I inspected the oil filter on both of the oil changes and although I don't have a microscope, I couldn't find a single piece of shiny stuff in the media. I just don't have a single concern about the miles I ran on the first (or second) oci. It never dropped off the full mark on the dipstick in either oci.

Now with the four F150's that I have purchased new over the years, I was just the opposite. I changed at around 1K miles and then again at around 3k miles before getting on the regular oci program. I think with my next F150, I will probably run the factory fill a little farther but maybe not, either.

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: dustyroads


I understand your thinking but it's not like a car/pickup engine. All heavy duty diesels are assembled and put on a dyno at the engine factory. That oil gets drained before shipping to the truck factory, and gets a fresh fill there. All of my trucks (engines) have been so good to me. Never an issue with oil use and they last forever.

This is my fifth new truck purchase (along with three used trucks) and I've never drained the factory fill way early. I was still way below the Detroit guidelines for an oci and it was even better than I thought it would be.

I inspected the oil filter on both of the oil changes and although I don't have a microscope, I couldn't find a single piece of shiny stuff in the media. I just don't have a single concern about the miles I ran on the first (or second) oci. It never dropped off the full mark on the dipstick in either oci.

Now with the four F150's that I have purchased new over the years, I was just the opposite. I changed at around 1K miles and then again at around 3k miles before getting on the regular oci program. I think with my next F150, I will probably run the factory fill a little farther but maybe not, either.

Nah, leave it in there. I've run out every vehicles factory fill to the max interval (most in the last 10 years have been 10k) and never any issues.

The leaching through the brazing in the intercooler core is a new one on me. I guess with that long of an interval, even minute amounts will build up enough to register. Most passenger vehicles wouldn't show construction materials in an intercooler in a normal 10k or less change. That's pretty interesting that they knew about it in advance and could tell you that's why it's there.

 

[dustyroads]

Yeah, I did the short "rinse cycles" on my F150's but yet I have a Taurus that was a rental in a previous life, and it certainly wasn't given any special treatment. It's doing very well and doesn't consume any oil, although it only has 63k miles so far.

I'm so glad that I tested the Detroit starting with the factory fill. I found it very interesting that there's leaching from the intercooler. Never would have imagined that was possible by air movement. Detroit does recommend an oil analysis program and doesn't say anything about waiting for the break in period to pass, thus they pass along info about the things that are bound to show up early on.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: dustyroads
Originally Posted By: CT8
What is the per mile cost these days of a OTR freight truck these days??


It can vary considerably depending on your total expenses and the amount of miles you drive. This year through September, I'm just under 80 cents per mile. That is counting every expense. I'm running less miles than I used to as well.


That would probably be right. My average CPM this year to date is around 74 cents, but that includes the $750 per week salary I pay myself and health insurance, which is a cost to my business, on top of the truck operating costs. My operation is an LLC with an S Corp tax structure, so I have myself on a employee payroll thing. Net income the business has after that is distributions to me.