F150 towing 10,000 pounds video

[UncleDave]

That's the point I'm making. Can do it is one thing, doing it safely and reliably is another.

We're aligned.

 

[Torrid]

I think the only thing a Model 3 might fail in the SAE J2807 towing test, even pulling 6k lbs is cooling capacity of some component in the drive train going up the Davis Dam road? Battery perhaps? Interestingly there is no long downhill grade braking test in the SAE J2807 towing test, which the Tesla would do quite well at!
I think most vehicles here have a low tow rating because the marketing dept doesn't think a high rating will sell cars, and/or it will cannibalize sales from a more expensive SUV or truck.
Also I suppose the can am RV guys cut some holes in the Model 3 to get to enough structure to mount the heavy duty weight distribution hitch.

Think of how the chassis is designed. The battery is part of the structural rigidity of the car. Do you want to overload the chassis if that's where the force is going to go? The reason trucks have such high tow ratings is because of the chassis design. They're overbuilt body on frame vehicles. Cars and crossovers are unibody, which isn't near as strong as a truck chassis. I was looking at the hitch designs and it seems that's how they are set up, so it seems Tesla never designed a dedicated built in mounting point in the car and I'm sure that the ones available would have been how Tesla would do it, but likely left it out completely to save weight.

The downhill would be interesting with regen. My concern there would be if it overheats and pulls back on regen. You're in for a ride once you cook the brakes. I would not do this on heavy grades on a Tesla. Now the Rivian or Lightning actually being trucks might be up for it with even bigger brakes. I only bring up the regen dipping out as experience as a railroader. We use dynamic brakes on locomotives which uses the motors to drag down and scrub speed. It's the same as regen only it doesn't have batteries to dump the power into. There's nothing like the feeling when they overheat and dynamic braking effort is reduced to protect the motors. Airbrakes are very effective on trains, but just as a point that being pushed downhill for extended periods of time I can't imagine regen being much different on a smaller scale. To get deep in the weeds on the railroad stuff, using dynamic braking bunches the train up, using the airbrakes tends to stretch the train out, so if you started by dynamic braking and got too aggressive with the air if the train stretched too fast it could rip the train in half.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Going downhill with a full battery is the opposite of perfect, you'd want enough battery capacity to store all the potential energy going down (which is about the same as you need going back up, ignoring conversion losses and aerodynamic losses)

and of course gravity...........

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Very true, and it isn't mentioned enough. Also, something that is very often overlooked is the amount of charging, and how it also decreases range and battery life.

It is hard on these batteries to 100% fully charge them, and to constantly keep topping them off to a full charge. It is also hard on EV batteries to run them down to a very low charge.

Most everyone agrees that it is ideal to achieve the longest battery life, by keeping the battery charge level between 20% and 80% as much as possible.

That pretty much eliminates 40% of your advertised range...... Assuming that it is accurate as displayed. Most dashboard advertised ranges are optimistic, and drop off rapidly in the first 50 miles or so. (As many of these posted videos show).

Get these EV's up in years and mileage, and a battery replacement can easily cost more than the vehicle itself is worth. Which pretty much scraps out the vehicle when the battery gives out. Yes, battery technology is improving.

There is talk of, "million mile batteries". But thus far it's just talk. So all of this has to be factored in to a EV purchase. Even more so with a EV truck that the buyer intends to do any serious towing with.

Understand, i am no expert, and any opinions i have on the subject are limited to my experiences with batteries, which is in the realm of power tools for the most part.

The brand of tools i use, introduced Lithium Ion battery technology about 15 years ago. Within the last 5, they introduced "brushless" motor technology......and touted that you can do X amount more work, drill X more hole.....................but what all the sales brochures and videos fail to disclose, is that these new "super tools" REQUIRE a higher amp hour battery to work as stated, and if "standard" power battery is used, the performance is greatly diminished......all at a 50% higher cost per battery by the way.

Point being, is that there is a bunch of ******** you have to weed through before you get to the truth. Notice how on EV commericals, when they say "zero emissions"...........now it discloses "at the tailpipe" in fine print.......which is weird, because there is no tailpipe.

 

[Torrid]

Understand, i am no expert, and any opinions i have on the subject are limited to my experiences with batteries, which is in the realm of power tools for the most part.

The brand of tools i use, introduced Lithium Ion battery technology about 15 years ago. Within the last 5, they introduced "brushless" motor technology......and touted that you can do X amount more work, drill X more hole.....................but what all the sales brochures and videos fail to disclose, is that these new "super tools" REQUIRE a higher amp hour battery to work as stated, and if "standard" power battery is used, the performance is greatly diminished......all at a 50% higher cost per battery by the way.

Point being, is that there is a bunch of ******** you have to weed through before you get to the truth. Notice how on EV commericals, when they say "zero emissions"...........now it discloses "at the tailpipe" in fine print.......which is weird, because there is no tailpipe.

The car doesn’t make exhaust come out. I don’t see why that’s hard to understand.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

but they're wasteful vehicles anyway and almost no one uses them beyond a point that a smaller vehicle couldn't do it

aint no honda civic going to tow my excavator................

and for efficiency............my 3500 truck which has a curb weight of 10000 actual lbs and get 12.5 mpg reliably. Using the civic as an example, how many mpg do you think the civic would get if it weighed 10000 lbs..............and how long do you think the vehicle would last under those conditions...........100 miles max? then blow the engine.............where is the efficiency in that.

And this might blow your mind, but typically, engines are most effiecient at wide open throttle, while getting the least MPG, the ampount of power to fuel used is far better than just putt putting around.

 

[Astro14]

and of course gravity...........

Actually, that’s exactly the thing that works equally in the conversion of energy from kinetic to potential and back to kinetic.

So, you’ll get back everything you put into climbing the hill when you go back down.

Less friction losses and aerodynamic drag losses.

 

[Torrid]

aint no honda civic going to tow my excavator................

and for efficiency............my 3500 truck which has a curb weight of 10000 actual lbs and get 12.5 mpg reliably. Using the civic as an example, how many mpg do you think the civic would get if it weighed 10000 lbs..............and how long do you think the vehicle would last under those conditions...........100 miles max? then blow the engine.............where is the efficiency in that.

And this might blow your mind, but typically, engines are most effiecient at wide open throttle, while getting the least MPG, the ampount of power to fuel used is far better than just putt putting around.

Congratulations, you didn’t read or comprehend a **** thing I said. I said most, not all. You’re .002% of the population.

 

[vwmaniaman]

don't care if you want an electric truck. I'll buy what I want too. Mine will be gas until our government makes using a gas vehicle illegal to drive

 

[andrew_j]

I should clarify the small percentage of truck owners who tow how many go past the charge range with really heavy loads? It might be high for this small subset of people however guessing Ford will introduce a PHEV towing model once they sort out their EV truck enough.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

The car doesn’t make exhaust come out. I don’t see why that’s hard to understand.

It is a fallacy............the were marketing the cars as zero emissions, when in fact they make more than current production vehicles, all in of course. Electric cars currently require more energy than IC cars. Fact

 

[weaponoffreedom]

don't care if you want an electric truck. I'll buy what I want too. Mine will be gas until our government makes using a gas vehicle illegal to drive

down with diesels

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Congratulations, you didn’t read or comprehend a **** thing I said. I said most, not all. You’re .002% of the population.

.002? really? everything you have, eat, drink, consume, play with, is hauled by a truck, gas or diesel, or a train, or a plane all of which is fueled by oil.

as to the population, I would agree that inside liberal haven cities, you are likely correct, but just outside of your sanctuary, I will be, with my cat deleted, tuned 6.6 supercharged 3\4 suburban, ready to roll.

 

[Torrid]

It is a fallacy............the were marketing the cars as zero emissions, when in fact they make more than current production vehicles, all in of course. Electric cars currently require more energy than IC cars. Fact

From the vehicle... That's what it said. Yes, electric plants make emissions. I take coal to powerplants all of the time. Of course that comes from emissions. The claim is no emissions come DIRECTLY FROM THE CAR. They can't claim an emissions amount because it's different depending on where you plug in.

.002? really? everything you have, eat, drink, consume, play with, is hauled by a truck, gas or diesel, or a train, or a plane all of which is fueled by oil.

as to the population, I would agree that inside liberal haven cities, you are likely correct, but just outside of your sanctuary, I will be, with my cat deleted, tuned 6.6 supercharged 3\4 suburban, ready to roll.

You really have no idea, do you? I'm saying non commercial use is usually a waste. I work for a railroad. You're talking to the wrong guy. You must be like the jackass with his lifted LBZ across the road on 24x14s that has never even driven the crap on grass. What a joke. Just for your information, I live in a small town in the midwest. I just don't get why some people need to act the way you are. All I stated was many people buy way more vehicle than they need, not that they shouldn't be allowed to have them. I just rip around cat deleted idiots. I don't need to smell it and you idiots can't keep up with either one of my cars.

 

[Astro14]

This has turned into an interpersonal conflict. I'm locking it for now. The points have been made.