Yep, go figure, Shannow. We don't have M1 0w-30, but we have more 0w-30 HDEOs than you can shake a stick at.
Extra 0w-20...good time to try the CATERHAM blend?
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Joking aside, for KV40, KV100 and HTHSV an average is a rough approximation but it's best to use a viscosity calculator.
For MRV and CCS there isn't a calculator. All we know for sure is that the result of a blend would between the values of the two oils.
If one wants to blend an 0W-30 that will out perform M1 0W-30 at -40 degrees, using M1 SN 0W-40 won't do it. The PAO based SM 0W-40 with a MRV of around 21,000cP would be a better choice but it would be the PAO based Mobil Delvac Elite 0W-30 that Garak has already mentioned that would probably be the best choice with it's 3.5cP HTHSV and 14,900cP MRV. A 60/40 blend in favour of M1 0W-20 would produce a 0W-30 with a "average" MRV of 11,500cP, which on paper is better than the 13,250 of M1 AFE 0W-30.
But the only way to know for sure would be to have the blend tested.
BTW since M1 AFE 0W-30 isn't sold in Canada, Imperial Oil, the Exxon/Mobil affiliate in Canada have given their blessing to this "proper 0W-30" blend. Now I wonder if we can talk them into actually testing it?
Maybe Solarent with his industry connections out in oily Alberta might be able to arrange it?
Of course it is only of academic interest to most of us in Eastern Canada closer to the 43rd parallel. Here a blend of TGMO and M1 0W-40 (or Delvac 0W-40) still reigns supreme in a light 200+ VI 0W-30 at more typical start-up temp's.
So in the absence of a "calculator", and average makes more sense, doesn't it ?
It's a bit dodgy to say that using an obsolete oil to make the brew better justifies the current use...
Joking aside, for KV40, KV100 and HTHSV an average is a rough approximation but it's best to use a viscosity calculator.
For MRV and CCS there isn't a calculator. All we know for sure is that the result of a blend would between the values of the two oils.
If one wants to blend an 0W-30 that will out perform M1 0W-30 at -40 degrees, using M1 SN 0W-40 won't do it. The PAO based SM 0W-40 with a MRV of around 21,000cP would be a better choice but it would be the PAO based Mobil Delvac Elite 0W-30 that Garak has already mentioned that would probably be the best choice with it's 3.5cP HTHSV and 14,900cP MRV. A 60/40 blend in favour of M1 0W-20 would produce a 0W-30 with a "average" MRV of 11,500cP, which on paper is better than the 13,250 of M1 AFE 0W-30.
But the only way to know for sure would be to have the blend tested.
BTW since M1 AFE 0W-30 isn't sold in Canada, Imperial Oil, the Exxon/Mobil affiliate in Canada have given their blessing to this "proper 0W-30" blend. Now I wonder if we can talk them into actually testing it?
Maybe Solarent with his industry connections out in oily Alberta might be able to arrange it?
Of course it is only of academic interest to most of us in Eastern Canada closer to the 43rd parallel. Here a blend of TGMO and M1 0W-40 (or Delvac 0W-40) still reigns supreme in a light 200+ VI 0W-30 at more typical start-up temp's.
So in the absence of a "calculator", and average makes more sense, doesn't it ?
It's a bit dodgy to say that using an obsolete oil to make the brew better justifies the current use...
What obsolete oil?
Originally Posted By: toneydoc
I don't know if I would try that blend in a high performance machine like the Mercury Villager. All the added plusses of the mix may result in extreme performance caused by operator error and thus yield a ticket from the boys in blue. Be careful what you wish for.
I see what you did there!
On top of that the Villager also has some weight reduction thanks to 13 years of salty Michigan winters!
So it sounds like it would be relatively safe to just buy 2 quarts of 0w-40 and then add up to 2.2 quarts of the 0w-20? Unless I can find some old stock of 0w-40 (doubtful) I will be using SN versions of both weights.
Thanks for the input everyone!
I don't know if I would try that blend in a high performance machine like the Mercury Villager. All the added plusses of the mix may result in extreme performance caused by operator error and thus yield a ticket from the boys in blue. Be careful what you wish for.
I see what you did there!
On top of that the Villager also has some weight reduction thanks to 13 years of salty Michigan winters!
So it sounds like it would be relatively safe to just buy 2 quarts of 0w-40 and then add up to 2.2 quarts of the 0w-20? Unless I can find some old stock of 0w-40 (doubtful) I will be using SN versions of both weights.
Thanks for the input everyone!
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Are Mobil continuing to make the SM, or are all new batches SN ?
Up here, the M1 0w-40 data sheet finally shows SN. I don't know if the SN stuff has found its way to store shelves, though. Imperial Oil always seems to take a little while to get the newest stuff through. I took a tour through one of the Imperial Oil warehouses last week, and now I know why.
Picture a building about 1/3 the size of a super Walmart. Then, picture it stocked floor to ceiling with motor oil and related products.
Are Mobil continuing to make the SM, or are all new batches SN ?
Up here, the M1 0w-40 data sheet finally shows SN. I don't know if the SN stuff has found its way to store shelves, though. Imperial Oil always seems to take a little while to get the newest stuff through. I took a tour through one of the Imperial Oil warehouses last week, and now I know why.
Picture a building about 1/3 the size of a super Walmart. Then, picture it stocked floor to ceiling with motor oil and related products.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Shannow said:
Are they making SM concurrently with SN at the present time ?
If not, then it's not "current", its.... ???
Just because they haven't flushed it through the warehouses doesn't make it the current M1, thus my assertion that recalling previous specs to make the "blend" better is disingenuous to the argument.
If not, then it's not "current", its.... ???
Just because they haven't flushed it through the warehouses doesn't make it the current M1, thus my assertion that recalling previous specs to make the "blend" better is disingenuous to the argument.
Only M1 SM 0W-40 is available in Canada at present unless you bring up some SN oil from the States.
So how am I being disingenuous with my better "blend" argument?
All to often in an effort to make a pedantic point you're wrong.
So how am I being disingenuous with my better "blend" argument?
All to often in an effort to make a pedantic point you're wrong.
Sorry for using the current spec sheet in my analysis, as I assumed that would be what the OP was likely to find in the future for his blend...when I should have been looking at the older spec that's available through warehousing while it's being worked through the system
My bad I guess...
My bad I guess...
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Are they making SM concurrently with SN at the present time ?
If not, then it's not "current", its.... ???
That I cannot answer. I only got to look around the warehouse, not where they actually make the stuff, unfortunately. And there was way too much stuff on the shelves for me to hunt for M1 0w-40, and it was all in boxes anyhow.
It really didn't cross my mind to ask, either. In retrospect, I wish I had.
Are they making SM concurrently with SN at the present time ?
If not, then it's not "current", its.... ???
That I cannot answer. I only got to look around the warehouse, not where they actually make the stuff, unfortunately. And there was way too much stuff on the shelves for me to hunt for M1 0w-40, and it was all in boxes anyhow.
It really didn't cross my mind to ask, either. In retrospect, I wish I had.
I have a case of M1 0W-40 SM that I blend with newer M1 0W-20 for my 05 Prius. Here in moderate NC is works well with about a 50/50 blend. Once I run out of 0W-40 I'll probably just use M1 0W-30 out of the bottle. I go with 8k to 10k OCI's btw.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Are they making SM concurrently with SN at the present time ?
If not, then it's not "current", its.... ???
That I cannot answer. I only got to look around the warehouse, not where they actually make the stuff, unfortunately. And there was way too much stuff on the shelves for me to hunt for M1 0w-40, and it was all in boxes anyhow.
It really didn't cross my mind to ask, either. In retrospect, I wish I had.
Garak, I'd bet my left one that one they shift to the new spec, that's all they make...particularly if the SN is markedly different, as asserted here...why would you run two sets of basestocks (one apparently better), two add packs, and sell them alongside each other.
I'll even go as far as to "assert" that the reason the older blends are still considered "current" is because they are allowing a period for older stock to be sold out alongside the current blends...looks like Canada is catching up to the production schedule, rather than a special SM country.
Wonder what the OP can get in his country given he should be using SM for his blend.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Are they making SM concurrently with SN at the present time ?
If not, then it's not "current", its.... ???
That I cannot answer. I only got to look around the warehouse, not where they actually make the stuff, unfortunately. And there was way too much stuff on the shelves for me to hunt for M1 0w-40, and it was all in boxes anyhow.
It really didn't cross my mind to ask, either. In retrospect, I wish I had.
Garak, I'd bet my left one that one they shift to the new spec, that's all they make...particularly if the SN is markedly different, as asserted here...why would you run two sets of basestocks (one apparently better), two add packs, and sell them alongside each other.
I'll even go as far as to "assert" that the reason the older blends are still considered "current" is because they are allowing a period for older stock to be sold out alongside the current blends...looks like Canada is catching up to the production schedule, rather than a special SM country.
Wonder what the OP can get in his country given he should be using SM for his blend.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Garak, I'd bet my left one that one they shift to the new spec, that's all they make...particularly if the SN is markedly different, as asserted here...why would you run two sets of basestocks (one apparently better), two add packs, and sell them alongside each other.
Yep, I'd agree completely. There's no way they're going to be making two different versions of the product, and once the SN stuff comes out, that will be it.
I don't know if I mentioned it earlier, but Imperial Oil seems to be about the slowest up here in bringing out the latest stuff (or the latest bottle labels, at the very least). They had SM/GF-4 stuff out longer than most others (except the gold Castrol, but at $14 a litre, that's another matter altogether).
Garak, I'd bet my left one that one they shift to the new spec, that's all they make...particularly if the SN is markedly different, as asserted here...why would you run two sets of basestocks (one apparently better), two add packs, and sell them alongside each other.
Yep, I'd agree completely. There's no way they're going to be making two different versions of the product, and once the SN stuff comes out, that will be it.
I don't know if I mentioned it earlier, but Imperial Oil seems to be about the slowest up here in bringing out the latest stuff (or the latest bottle labels, at the very least). They had SM/GF-4 stuff out longer than most others (except the gold Castrol, but at $14 a litre, that's another matter altogether).
HaHa for the people who say that supply chain is why we don't have xW-20 in our mnanuals down here...
Checked the local parts place this arv (nice to get out of work when things are open), and the M1 0W-40 on my rural Australian shelves is SN...
Checked the local parts place this arv (nice to get out of work when things are open), and the M1 0W-40 on my rural Australian shelves is SN...
Originally Posted By: Shannow
HaHa for the people who say that supply chain is why we don't have xW-20 in our mnanuals down here...
Checked the local parts place this arv (nice to get out of work when things are open), and the M1 0W-40 on my rural Australian shelves is SN...
Really? Yet here I'm still not seeing the SN spec on the shelves at any retailer. I wonder if Exxon just decided to stick us Canadians with all the available SM version of the stuff.
HaHa for the people who say that supply chain is why we don't have xW-20 in our mnanuals down here...
Checked the local parts place this arv (nice to get out of work when things are open), and the M1 0W-40 on my rural Australian shelves is SN...
Really? Yet here I'm still not seeing the SN spec on the shelves at any retailer. I wonder if Exxon just decided to stick us Canadians with all the available SM version of the stuff.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Yep, was out of the office before 6PM...
yeah, and it was SN...maybe Canada and Michigan only get the SM because it's vital for "the blend"...
HA. Exxon has seen the bitog threads and is enabling those who are into it more supply.
Awesome..........hehehe
Yep, was out of the office before 6PM...
yeah, and it was SN...maybe Canada and Michigan only get the SM because it's vital for "the blend"...
HA. Exxon has seen the bitog threads and is enabling those who are into it more supply.
Awesome..........hehehe
Originally Posted By: Shannow
yeah, and it was SN...maybe Canada and Michigan only get the SM because it's vital for "the blend"...
If one isn't concerned about extreme cold performance; i.e., the MRV rating of an oil, it doesn't matter much which version of M1 0W-40 one uses in the blend or straight.
The other notable difference between the SM and SN MI versions is that the SN oil has a higher HTHSV rating of 3.85cP vs 3.6cP for the SM version Canada is using at least based on the last posted PDS Imperial Oil had of the SM oil.
Again this is something to be aware of whether using either oil straight or in a blend.
yeah, and it was SN...maybe Canada and Michigan only get the SM because it's vital for "the blend"...
If one isn't concerned about extreme cold performance; i.e., the MRV rating of an oil, it doesn't matter much which version of M1 0W-40 one uses in the blend or straight.
The other notable difference between the SM and SN MI versions is that the SN oil has a higher HTHSV rating of 3.85cP vs 3.6cP for the SM version Canada is using at least based on the last posted PDS Imperial Oil had of the SM oil.
Again this is something to be aware of whether using either oil straight or in a blend.
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