Extended OCI : "Just Say No" - If You Drive GDI

[racin4ds]

Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
FWIW: For my '12 Kia Optima SX (2.0L turbo), I started running M1 0W-40 oil since new and did various UOA from both Blackstone and Polaris with OCI of ~4K miles (due to Kia's "severe usage" verbiage). I had little wear metals but very poor fuel dilution and shearing down of the oil at that point as well as high oxidation numbers. You could smell the fuel in the old oil. Yes, I run Oil Catch Cans and did drain about 1-2OZ of fluid out per OCI. Runs strong and gets good fuel economy (when I keep my foot out it - daily driver). I only run Top Tier 93 octane gas (E10). Car never uses oil nor do I get any creeping up oil level as measured by the dip stick.

I switched to Castrol EDGE 0W-40 oil a while back and my Polaris UOA showed a significant reduction in oxidation (same good wear metal levels) as well as a reduction in viscosity shearing. In my last OCI (just recent), I noticed basically no fluid in my OCCs. So the Castrol EDGE oil has held up (same driving conditions) much better than the M1 oil in my engine with my state of tune/driving style/etc.

To the OP, I'd say your game-plan is a good one for your engine series! Keep it up sir.


Yet again, more proof that M1 oils are garbage these days... sorry its off topic but everyone seems to be using this junk M1 in their new GDI Turbo engines. Why? There is so much better oils out there! I'm betting Pennzoil PUP/PP 0W40 would do stellar in your little rocket! Have you ever given it a try?

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN

Off Topic: Being an engineer I have to take exception to your comments about the Space Shuttle disaster. The engineers DID tell flight management that the seals would be compromised by the lower than designed launch temperature and that they should NOT launch but were OVERRULED by management in order to "make the schedule" so the Politicians could crow about sending the first female teacher into space. After 73 seconds, it blew up in their face, literally. If the results had not been so horrible, it would be a classic Dilbert cartoon.


And that sir is exactly the point of my post, it is rarely only the engineers that are involved in the decision making process especially in the automotive industry.
An automobile is a mix of compromises including the engine oil and fuel.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: racin4ds


Yet again, more proof that M1 oils are garbage these days... sorry its off topic but everyone seems to be using this junk M1 in their new GDI Turbo engines. Why? There is so much better oils out there! I'm betting Pennzoil PUP/PP 0W40 would do stellar in your little rocket! Have you ever given it a try?

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
FWIW: For my '12 Kia Optima SX (2.0L turbo), I started running M1 0W-40 oil since new and did various UOA from both Blackstone and Polaris with OCI of ~4K miles (due to Kia's "severe usage" verbiage). I had little wear metals but very poor fuel dilution and shearing down of the oil at that point as well as high oxidation numbers. You could smell the fuel in the old oil. Yes, I run Oil Catch Cans and did drain about 1-2OZ of fluid out per OCI. Runs strong and gets good fuel economy (when I keep my foot out it - daily driver). I only run Top Tier 93 octane gas (E10). Car never uses oil nor do I get any creeping up oil level as measured by the dip stick.

I switched to Castrol EDGE 0W-40 oil a while back and my Polaris UOA showed a significant reduction in oxidation (same good wear metal levels) as well as a reduction in viscosity shearing. In my last OCI (just recent), I noticed basically no fluid in my OCCs. So the Castrol EDGE oil has held up (same driving conditions) much better than the M1 oil in my engine with my state of tune/driving style/etc.

To the OP, I'd say your game-plan is a good one for your engine series! Keep it up sir.


Yet again, more proof that M1 oils are garbage these days... sorry its off topic but everyone seems to be using this junk M1 in their new GDI Turbo engines. Why? There is so much better oils out there! I'm betting Pennzoil PUP/PP 0W40 would do stellar in your little rocket! Have you ever given it a try?




Why Shell?

 

[dlundblad]

Just going with what I've read here, my go to would be Castrol Magnatec 5w30 as the stuff seems to do fairly well in EB and I assume DI engines. It's less than $20 a jug and marketed as a full synthetic. Not sure how the stuff compares to other oils now with the D1G2 spec so maybe my recommendation is a bit outdated. Perhaps this summer and fall when more folks get UOA's in?

I'd have no issues with running M1 in something of the sort since I assume it's better than what most on the road get anyways, but I certainly see no reason to go out of my way for it either. The new M1 0w40 Dexos2 stuff that I saw mentioned in another thread looks interesting. Low calcium and DI friendly, but I'll happily go to the competition for my A3/B4 needs if that is the only 0w40 they sell.

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: racin4ds


Yet again, more proof that M1 oils are garbage these days... sorry its off topic but everyone seems to be using this junk M1 in their new GDI Turbo engines. Why? There is so much better oils out there! I'm betting Pennzoil PUP/PP 0W40 would do stellar in your little rocket! Have you ever given it a try?

2X

Whimsey

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Nope : 3,750 miles per the manual for severe duty but I will stretch to 4,000 miles - even if fuel dilution "calms down" as Hyundai GDI engines have been reported to do after break in , I can't ever see myself going past 5,000 mile OCI's on a Hyundai GDI engine . **New service being featured at Hyundai dealerships : Intake Valve Cleaning - complete with before / after scare pictures using Wynn carbon cleaning
Hi Chris, below I'll post the link the a UOA I had done on my Sonata last year. Thought you might find it interesting.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4430498/Pennzoil_Ultra_5w30_6,377_15'_#Post4430498

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
What is perplexing is that they are 'requiring' the same 945-A Ford spec for the 5W-30, which I thought was a 5W-20 spec EXCLUSIVELY.

Not sure what you mean. From the 2018 Mustang Owner's Manual.

5W-20 is Ford Spec WSS-M2C945-A

5W-30 is Ford Spec WSS-M2C946-A




2017 fiesta ST owner's manual supplement;

Motorcraft® SAE 5W-20 Full Synthetic Motor Oil (U.S.) WSS-M2C945-A
Motorcraft® SAE 5W-30 Full Synthetic Motor Oil / Huile moteur
synthétique Motorcraft® (Canada)
XO-5W20-QFS (U.S.)

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Looks like an error in the manual. Why would Ford apply the same oil spec to two different viscosity oils when in every other Ford manual they have their own spec number as I showed from the 2018 Mustang owner's manual.

And if you look at every oil bottle on the store shelf or every oil spec on-line, you will never find the Ford spec WSS-M2C945-A on a bottle of 5W-30 or listed on-line for any 5W-30.

 

[bbhero]

This is not meant as a knock on engineers. Engineers do a WHOLE LOT of great work that has made this world a far safer place, a far better place, more efficient and much more
reliable world in which we live. Almost everything we touch, use or run has been the results of great engineering minds who have made that possible. And that has a tremendous impact upon our daily lives.

There are circumstances where mistakes are made and it made by extremely smart and capable people. Physicians are just as prone to this has well... Sometimes the best of the very best just make errors. Even a group of brilliant people can use poor judgement or not use common sense... It happens. Having said that..

Unless you were there... Then ok.

If not... Which is very, very likely... You don't know what happened either for sure. I have heard that one of the engineers was AT HOME and tried calling them to tell them exactly what you stated. However, there was not really enough resistance put up by the engineers ON scene... Management certainly was a very big part of this terrible circumstance. No doubt in that. The finger pointing afterwards that is how it typically goes down. Blame management or blame all the engineers... When in fact both sides are likely and equally at fault here. So at the end of the day so we're the "experts" there on scene.


Let me tell you and everyone else on here this... Don't always blindly trust Doctors as well. I have seen first-hand when that happens with terrible results. I had a patient who clearly had a serious post operative infection, I asked the physician for wound cultures, blood cultures, a hospitalist consult, a broad spectrum antibiotic after cultures we're drawn... And got a no on all of those requests. Poor man died on the operating table 2 days after Christmas. For no good reason. This was considered a "sentinel" event aka in healthcare terminology a very, very big deal. Again, if you have a loved one who is in a rough place and the plan of care makes zero sense... Push extremely hard until it does make sense. Truth be told my niece Sara would not be here if my sister had not pushed very hard to get the right treatment and answer. She got on IV magnesium which kept her from going into labor far, far too soon. But had she "trusted" the doctor from a military hospital... She would have had the same thing that happened with her previous pregnancy... A baby born far, far too soon. Again... If something does not make sense.... Push hard until it really makes sense. Or get a second or third opinion.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Looks like an error in the manual. Why would Ford apply the same oil spec to two different viscosity oils when in every other Ford manual they have their own spec number as I showed from the 2018 Mustang owner's manual.

And if you look at every oil bottle on the store shelf or every oil spec on-line, you will never find the Ford spec WSS-M2C945-A on a bottle of 5W-30 or listed on-line for any 5W-30.


Is it a 946-A, with NO 945-A listed at all, on the full synthetic Motorcraft 5W-30 as well (I've NEVER seen a bottle of this stuff anywhere)?

I figured it could be a misprint as well, and really do not care, as long as I can use a 946-A spec meeting 5W-30 like I plan to, and NOT have to worry, even a minuscule bit about satisfying the warranty requirements.

 

[WhizkidTN]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
This is not meant as a knock on engineers. Engineers do a WHOLE LOT of great work that has made this world a far safer place, a far better place, more efficient and much more
reliable world in which we live. Almost everything we touch, use or run has been the results of great engineering minds who have made that possible. And that has a tremendous impact upon our daily lives.

There are circumstances where mistakes are made and it made by extremely smart and capable people. Physicians are just as prone to this has well... Sometimes the best of the very best just make errors. Even a group of brilliant people can use poor judgement or not use common sense... It happens. Having said that..

Unless you were there... Then ok.

If not... Which is very, very likely... You don't know what happened either for sure. I have heard that one of the engineers was AT HOME and tried calling them to tell them exactly what you stated. However, there was not really enough resistance put up by the engineers ON scene... Management certainly was a very big part of this terrible circumstance. No doubt in that. The finger pointing afterwards that is how it typically goes down. Blame management or blame all the engineers... When in fact both sides are likely and equally at fault here. So at the end of the day so we're the "experts" there on scene.


Let me tell you and everyone else on here this... Don't always blindly trust Doctors as well. I have seen first-hand when that happens with terrible results. I had a patient who clearly had a serious post operative infection, I asked the physician for wound cultures, blood cultures, a hospitalist consult, a broad spectrum antibiotic after cultures we're drawn... And got a no on all of those requests. Poor man died on the operating table 2 days after Christmas. For no good reason. This was considered a "sentinel" event aka in healthcare terminology a very, very big deal. Again, if you have a loved one who is in a rough place and the plan of care makes zero sense... Push extremely hard until it does make sense. Truth be told my niece Sara would not be here if my sister had not pushed very hard to get the right treatment and answer. She got on IV magnesium which kept her from going into labor far, far too soon. But had she "trusted" the doctor from a military hospital... She would have had the same thing that happened with her previous pregnancy... A baby born far, far too soon. Again... If something does not make sense.... Push hard until it really makes sense. Or get a second or third opinion.


Agreed with what you've written. My wife also almost passed while pregnant with our second child after being put "too long" on IV magnesium as well! This in a first class hospital no less!

 

[ChrisD46]

*Is Castrol Magnatec 5W30 Synthetic the same quality AFTER going to full synthetic rating ? ... Some think it has been cheapened !
*Why does Corvette use M! as a factory fill if it is "garbage" ?
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Just going with what I've read here, my go to would be Castrol Magnatec 5w30 as the stuff seems to do fairly well in EB and I assume DI engines. It's less than $20 a jug and marketed as a full synthetic. Not sure how the stuff compares to other oils now with the D1G2 spec so maybe my recommendation is a bit outdated. Perhaps this summer and fall when more folks get UOA's in?

I'd have no issues with running M1 in something of the sort since I assume it's better than what most on the road get anyways, but I certainly see no reason to go out of my way for it either. The new M1 0w40 Dexos2 stuff that I saw mentioned in another thread looks interesting. Low calcium and DI friendly, but I'll happily go to the competition for my A3/B4 needs if that is the only 0w40 they sell.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: bbhero

...
Let me tell you and everyone else on here this... Don't always blindly trust Doctors as well.
...

Some of the best advice I have ever received was from a friend who was in his fellowship when my father had a stroke.
He told me to challenge his doctors on everything, get in their faces and demand all the information they had, force them to let me in their staff meetings when they discussed my father's condition. He told me that he was being trained to get patients to bend to his will and not question him and to resist that attempt at psychological mastery.
One of the senior doctors talked to a nurse about me and said he liked that "kid" for getting involved and not taking no for an answer. He didn't like me so much when I didn't choose his hospital for rehab after he gave me a long pitch about how great it was...it was a fine hospital, but there was one just as good that was much easier for my sister and I to visit (Dad agreed, BTW). I didn't care that he didn't like me anymore!

 

[wvc918]

I have a 2016 VW Jetta 1.4T. Is heavy duty diesel oil 5w-30 or 5w-40 okay for TGDI. I ask because calcium levels are much lower and they seem to have better ingredients. Any options? The move to SN+ is requiring major oil brands to change formulas? I'm currently running Pennzoil Euro L 0w-40. The strange thing is that the oil price locally has gone up to around 30$ when it was 22$ like other brands. Thanks for any info. This my first Post so please be considerate.

 

[pscholte]

Honestly, when I go through threads like these, and I do know some of you speak from first-hand experience, I can’t help but think about all those car owners out there who never heard of BITOG, have xx,ooo miles on their GDI engine and have never had a problem. If they read these threads would they begin to wonder if the time bomb is ticking? Makes me think of the happy go lucky med student who is now a nervous wreck because med school taught him about all the things that can kill you.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: pscholte
Honestly, when I go through threads like these, and I do know some of you speak from first-hand experience, I can’t help but think about all those car owners out there who never heard of BITOG, have xx,ooo miles on their GDI engine and have never had a problem. If they read these threads would they begin to wonder if the time bomb is ticking? Makes me think of the happy go lucky med student who is now a nervous wreck because med school taught him about all the things that can kill you.
I really don't think it's a big deal. I have no concerns with mine. Just common sense OCI's.

 

[pscholte]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Honestly, when I go through threads like these, and I do know some of you speak from first-hand experience, I can’t help but think about all those car owners out there who never heard of BITOG, have xx,ooo miles on their GDI engine and have never had a problem. If they read these threads would they begin to wonder if the time bomb is ticking? Makes me think of the happy go lucky med student who is now a nervous wreck because med school taught him about all the things that can kill you.
I really don't think it's a big deal. I have no concerns with mine. Just common sense OCI's.


I second your approach.

While I realize that BITOG exists to give people a chance to engage on the subject of oil, I think sometimes the discussion goes over the top generating more exhaust than horsepower.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: wvc918
I have a 2016 VW Jetta 1.4T. Is heavy duty diesel oil 5w-30 or 5w-40 okay for TGDI. I ask because calcium levels are much lower and they seem to have better ingredients. Any options? The move to SN+ is requiring major oil brands to change formulas? I'm currently running Pennzoil Euro L 0w-40. The strange thing is that the oil price locally has gone up to around 30$ when it was 22$ like other brands. Thanks for any info. This my first Post so please be considerate.

I'd say you're doing fine as you are, using the specified lube. There are certainly reasons to think outside the box on certain issues, but remember, there will always be trade offs in other aspects.

 

[vitez]

The Mrs. 2018 VW Tiguan, 2.0 TGDI, recent first oil change at 15,000 km as per the manual, Castrol Edge Professional LL IV 0W-20, did we do something wrong?

.

Oil is VW 508.00. Free oil changes q15,000 km for 3 years per the dealer.