Extended drain interval

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Fred H.

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Ok, I admit it, I am still using 3K mile oil drain intervals on all my vehicles.

I keep seeing manufactures increasing the oil drain intervals to what I consider ridiculous mileages. When I got my new Honda, they told me not to do the first oil change till 8K miles, but that it did not have a "break in oil" in the engine. That seems a terribly long time to wait to get all the break in metal particulates out of the crankcase.

I would like to hear from some of the experts that can shine the light on this subject and can point me to real facts that support either extended change intervals or shorter intervals.

I believe that both fluid and particulate contamination rates occur at a fairly high rate, and by 3K miles, your oil may still be good, but it is loaded with contamination that can only be removed by draining it out and replacing it with fresh.

Thoughts?
 
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Pretty clear that intervals can be extended with the proper oils and monitoring.

Quote:

your oil may still be good, but it is loaded with contamination that can only be removed by draining it out and replacing it with fresh.


Speculation. How did you come up with 3K, couldn't it be 4K, 8K, 10K?
 
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Originally Posted By: Fred H.


I believe that both fluid and particulate contamination rates occur at a fairly high rate, and by 3K miles, your oil may still be good, but it is loaded with contamination that can only be removed by draining it out and replacing it with fresh.

Thoughts?


You may believe one thing, but the used oil analysis data people get from their extended oil isnt packed with contamination either.
 
I am no expert and while i agree that oil can become contaminated with byproducts and if you do a lot of short trips and never get the oil up to optimum temps then the shorter 3K intervals are probably still the way to go.

If you occasionally get the car on the highway and can get up to temp to burn off the condensation and or fuel then 5K is a safe oci.
 
Originally Posted By: Fred H.
Ok, I admit it, I am still using 3K mile oil drain intervals on all my vehicles.

I keep seeing manufactures increasing the oil drain intervals to what I consider ridiculous mileages. When I got my new Honda, they told me not to do the first oil change till 8K miles, but that it did not have a "break in oil" in the engine. That seems a terribly long time to wait to get all the break in metal particulates out of the crankcase.

I would like to hear from some of the experts that can shine the light on this subject and can point me to real facts that support either extended change intervals or shorter intervals.

I believe that both fluid and particulate contamination rates occur at a fairly high rate, and by 3K miles, your oil may still be good, but it is loaded with contamination that can only be removed by draining it out and replacing it with fresh.

Thoughts?


With that much concern, it sounds like you are a first and last owner of your vehicles.

If so, then if it makes you feel better changing oil every 3K - then just do it.

You are here to please yourself. That's all that matters.
 
I could accept 5K miles, but I frequently see recommendations of 10-15K miles, which I find unbelievable.
 
If you stay here long enough reading the replies, there are those that do 10-15K will chime-in. The verdict is split on whether it works effectively. Too many of those XL-long OCI posters don't seem to keep their vehicles from birth to death. There are only a few I read here - like Bill from Utah and a couple others. But considering the thousands registered here that read these posts everyday, that's a thin straw in a big field. Perhaps my post will attract/snatch a few others to chime in.

Being a first and last owner myself, I do 6K synthetic --3K OCIs with dino. I will never change - for as long as SM sticks around. Something better comes along?... then I will consider longer.
 
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I can't find the link right now, but I remember a published report by a guy who used a late model Camaro and did several oil changes at around 7K or so, and sent samples off to Blackstone labs, and then repeated the test, only changing oil at 3K, and the results seemed to bear out that there was increased bearing wear going on in the engine on the longer drain interval samples.

If I can find the link I will post it, but it was several years ago when I read it, and I am not sure if it is still around. Some of you may have read it yourself and know what I am revering to, and I think I recall seeing the link on this board a long time ago.
 
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The wear should be looked at as ppm's per mile in trending the wear in extended oil changes. When reading information and articles the problem is first understanding the subject before forming an opinion . For example,,, gee wiz I cut open the oil filter and there is not much space between the element and the can and there is so many pleats it must not be a good filter cuz there is no room for the oil to pass through the filter. Or I have a brand new car and I changed the factory oil at 2,000 miles the oil was a 30 wt. via uoa and the wear # were high. On the second oil change I ran a 20 wt and at the next 2,000 mile oil change the # were lower so the 20 wt oil must be better.
 
Originally Posted By: Fred H.


I believe that both fluid and particulate contamination rates occur at a fairly high rate, and by 3K miles, your oil may still be good, but it is loaded with contamination that can only be removed by draining it out and replacing it with fresh.

Thoughts?


Why not 2k miles, or 1k miles, or every time you run the engine? 3k mile oil changes are a waste.
 
I have some experience with extended drain intervals and oil analysis using my 2003 Harley FLTRI as the test mule. I have been using Amsoil 20W50 Synthetic Motorcycle Engine Oil for the life of the bike. It now has 58,000+ miles and I still change the oil at 10,000 mile intervals. I use oil analysis at the change interval and every report has been favorable stating that the oil is still suitable for continued use.

I race this bike each year at Bonneville after riding it there from Kentucky I then continue to ride for a couple more weeks in the west before retuning home. I average around 8,000 miles on these rides and then change the oil at the 10,000 mile mark. The engine is not showing any excessive wear metals which would indicate lubrication failure and the TBN is still high enough to do it's job.

I also use Amsoil 0W30 in my 2004 Ford F-150 and only change the oil annually. In the truck that is around 15,000 miles annually. I do this to save money in the long run while still protecting the engine with a premium oil and superior filtration.

I am convinced that the greater threat to oil life is a marginal air filter since that is the first line of defense against wear causing particles. On my vehicles I use Amsoil EaA Air filters which are designed for extended service; as well as increased air flow which noticeably improves performance without sacrificing efficiency. By properly filtering the intake air I reduce the load on the oil and oil filter which should result in extended engine life since it isn't being attacked by airborne contaminates. Because Amsoil is a full synthetic there is little chance for sludge or varnish to develop and extending the drain interval won't cause that to become a problem.

I also like the idea of lessening the amount of oil that I must dispose of, in addition to the large cost savings, that is made possible using annual oil changes. One oil change costs me around $60 annually while applying conventional wisdom of 3000 mile changes and 15,000 miles would cost me around $200 annually if I used the cheapest level at a quick lube shop to service my truck. In addition the fuel savings of using Amsoil Synthetic Oil, however slight, add up to an even greater cash savings.
 
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
... Being a first and last owner myself, I do 6K synthetic -- 3K OCIs with dino...

Hats off to you. Only 3% of the public owns their cars cradle-to-grave (barring accidents). We've owned two cars that way... bought them new, then called the salvage yard to tow it away when we used it up and didn't want to repair the car anymore.
 
I bought two new Hondas two years ago. Both recommended 5K mile OCI before first change. There is some additional conditioners in the factory fill oil that helps the seals, etc. during the initial 5K miles. I know that neither of my cars use any oil. I did have to add about 10-12 ounces to each at about 3K miles. Nothing since then.

I have done 6K and 6.5K OCIs with PP. I am now about 6K or so on Amsoil 0w20. Considering running to 10K or 12K.
 
I put 300,000 miles on my 89 Toyota 2.4l 4x4 using mostly Syntec oil at a 7,500 mile OCI. When I finally took the engine apart I was ammazed at the internal condition of the motor, ther was only a slight ridge at the top of the cyl bore and little wear was evident on the cam lobes.
 
Originally Posted By: Robert1955
I put 300,000 miles on my 89 Toyota 2.4l 4x4 using mostly Syntec oil at a 7,500 mile OCI. When I finally took the engine apart I was ammazed at the internal condition of the motor, ther was only a slight ridge at the top of the cyl bore and little wear was evident on the cam lobes.


Of course the 22RE is arguably the best (or perhaps most reliable) engine Toyota has ever made. I had one in my '89 4Runner.
 
they only way I would advise a 3k oci is if it takes six months to reach it or you have a coolant leak.
 
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