Extended drain 5w20's

[Johnny248]

Comparing Amsoil SS , M1 EP , and Castrol Edge EP 5w20 oils.

From what I can see on paper (actually the monitor) , all three of these oils look pretty good.

It appears that the M1 and Edge are just slightly heavier at 100°C with an 8.9 compared to 8.7 for the SS. At 40°C we have SS @ 50.2 , M1 @ 49.6 , Edge @ 45.1.

Based off of that info, the Edge seems best for a vehicle that sees summer and winter driving. Not sure just how important pour point is, but the SS has lower numbers than the other two.

The SS also seems to have the best NOACK specs, which may not be incredibly important, but at 5.5% it looks pretty pressive.

Now we come to VI. Both M1 and Edge are rated at 161, whereas the SS is only 153. What does this mean in real life? I've always read that the higher VI , the better. Is VI reason enough to choose one over the other?

We all know that SS and M1 EP are pretty highly regarded oils. Most Castrol products here don't seem to see much love or respect.

Though all three of these choices surely will be more than adequate for use, and all things being equal with pricing or availability, based on manufactures info, which would be considered the "better" or even "best" of the three?

Assuming this is a generic engine that is simply spec'd for a 5w20 oil without any specific details.

 

[gregk24]

I would use Mobil 1 EP 0w20 if I were you.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
I would use Mobil 1 EP 0w20 if I were you.


Because that is what you use in your car? Or because of the specs compared to the other two?

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I would use Mobil 1 EP 0w20 if I were you.


Because that is what you use in your car? Or because of the specs compared to the other two?


No, I do not use it in my car. M1 rates it at 15,000 miles if I am not mistaken so you get the extended drain benefit, as well as having the benefit of it being lighter on start up vs the 5w20. It has a nice slug of PAO synthetic as well.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I would use Mobil 1 EP 0w20 if I were you.


Because that is what you use in your car? Or because of the specs compared to the other two?


No, I do not use it in my car. M1 rates it at 15,000 miles if I am not mistaken so you get the extended drain benefit, as well as having the benefit of it being lighter on start up vs the 5w20. It has a nice slug of PAO synthetic as well.


Im sorry, I read your response wrong and missed the 0w part.

Since I was looking at the 5w's I didn't look at any of the 0w's as far as comparing specs.

 

[901Memphis]

The SS has a naturally high vi with the base oils, likely no viscosity index improvers used, which gives it excellent shear resistance and NOACK. I wouldn't hesitate to use the ss if money wasn't a concern.

153 isn't a bad vi, just not stupid high like Ultra light 0w20s.

 

[DirtyMoe21]

A positive about Mobil 1 and Castrol is that they can be found at Walmart and for decent prices. Im currently running 0w-20 EP in both cars in my signature and will be doing UOA's on both. I have seen some impressive UOA's from 5w-20 Mobil 1 EP on here as well.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: DirtyMoe21
A positive about Mobil 1 and Castrol is that they can be found at Walmart and for decent prices. Im currently running 0w-20 EP in both cars in my signature and will be doing UOA's on both. I have seen some impressive UOA's from 5w-20 Mobil 1 EP on here as well.


Availability is not really a concern. Warehouse is 1.2 miles from my house. I'm just looking st the numbers and trying to determine the best overall quality.

I have run the AFE before, and the 5w20 m1 seemed like it actually had quieter start IP than the AFE. Not sure if there is any Scientific reason for this. I also had good results with the SS 0w20 but I am kind of just looking at the different 5w20's right now.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: DirtyMoe21
A positive about Mobil 1 and Castrol is that they can be found at Walmart and for decent prices. Im currently running 0w-20 EP in both cars in my signature and will be doing UOA's on both. I have seen some impressive UOA's from 5w-20 Mobil 1 EP on here as well.


Availability is not really a concern. Warehouse is 1.2 miles from my house. I'm just looking st the numbers and trying to determine the best overall quality.

I have run the AFE before, and the 5w20 m1 seemed like it actually had quieter start IP than the AFE. Not sure if there is any Scientific reason for this. I also had good results with the SS 0w20 but I am kind of just looking at the different 5w20's right now.





Quality?



Call then equal. The key is running the interval out to take advantage of that quality.

If you are going to use a long drain oil but drain it at 5000 miles buy a conventional. Synthetic oil doesn't magically make engines last longer,the oil lasts longer in service

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248

I have run the AFE before, and the 5w20 m1 seemed like it actually had quieter start IP than the AFE.


Well, the 5w-20 is 8.9/49.8 vs 8.7/44.8 for the AFE 0w-20 (100C/40C) so the 5w-20 is heavier. That may be why it was quieter.

 

[tommygunn]

I'd choose the Castrol EP out of those three. There's also an EP 0w20 worth considering, too.

Have you considered PU 5w20? It's supposed to be as good as the three you mentioned, and there's a $10 rebate.
Kinematic 8.8 @100C
VI 164
Noack 10.5

PUP 5w20 PDS

I'd choose Ultra or Castrol over the others because they meet ACEA A1/B1; no M1 20-wt meets this standard anymore.

 

[WANG]

You should define "extended service". With some manufacturers specifying 10K+ mile intervals with oils and filters that are nothing exotic at all, the definition of extended service bears some consideration.

IMHO...

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: WANG
You should define "extended service". With some manufacturers specifying 10K+ mile intervals with oils and filters that are nothing exotic at all, the definition of extended service bears some consideration.

IMHO...


This. All three are very good oils. But since you are considering extended drain, perhaps TBN should be compared between the oils. I know the Amsoil is 12.6 and having no VI improvers would give it an edge in durability IMO.

 

[dlundblad]

My moms Elantra calls for SN GF-5 5w 20 for 7500 miles. The dealers use QSGB. Id consider its engine generic by todays standards. Its about average... very easy on oil too without any noticeable consumption.

How extended are you wanting to go?

 

[NO2]

I'm down to the last jug of M1 EP 5w-20. Oil has been quiet and the last UOA indicated a life of about 13K in a V6 Honda under my driving conditions. Wear metals are low. It works well in Michigan weather, and was quiet even during winter startups. I don't see any reason to continue using 5w-20 with M1 EP 0w-20 now available.

Of the brands you mentioned they are all good, so I would go by price.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Johnny248

I have run the AFE before, and the 5w20 m1 seemed like it actually had quieter start IP than the AFE.


Well, the 5w-20 is 8.9/49.8 vs 8.7/44.8 for the AFE 0w-20 (100C/40C) so the 5w-20 is heavier. That may be why it was quieter.


This is one thing I never have totally understood. How much difference does the .2 make?

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
I'd choose the Castrol EP out of those three. There's also an EP 0w20 worth considering, too.

Have you considered PU 5w20? It's supposed to be as good as the three you mentioned, and there's a $10 rebate.
Kinematic 8.8 @100C
VI 164
Noack 10.5

PUP 5w20 PDS

I'd choose Ultra or Castrol over the others because they meet ACEA A1/B1; no M1 20-wt meets this standard anymore.


The noak on the SS is 5.5%. The others were in the 9s if I remember correctly.

does the Acea standards effect domestic gas engines?

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: WANG
You should define "extended service". With some manufacturers specifying 10K+ mile intervals with oils and filters that are nothing exotic at all, the definition of extended service bears some consideration.

IMHO...


My OLM has been flipping between 7600-9000 miles. This is what I have been following. I was considering making a double run and resetting the OLM with one of these oils. I'm not really sure how comfortable I feel running a 16k OCI at this point though.

On a side note.... We had a leased 2006 Ram 1500 5.7l that had Amsoil 5w30 in it along with an Amsoil filter. It was *accidentally* ran to 23k on that oil. Believe it or not, there was no make up oil. It was a little overfilled to begin with, but any oil loss still kept the level in the acceptable range. I had a UOA done this sample which I have looked everywhere for, but I think it was lost in a move. Anyway, the TBN was still at 3.something and there was nothing that was really alarming.

This isn't something I would choose to do with my vehicle, but it does give me a little more confidence in doing something like a 15k interval with that oil.

 

[tommygunn]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248

does the Acea standards effect domestic gas engines?


ACEA's A1/B1 and A5/B5 do have a fuel economy requirement that is fairly similar to GF5's FE standards.

It's just too bad that whatever succeeds API's SN won't just be harmonized with ACEA A1/B1 and A3/B3

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Johnny248

I have run the AFE before, and the 5w20 m1 seemed like it actually had quieter start IP than the AFE.


Well, the 5w-20 is 8.9/49.8 vs 8.7/44.8 for the AFE 0w-20 (100C/40C) so the 5w-20 is heavier. That may be why it was quieter.


This is one thing I never have totally understood. How much difference does the .2 make?


I was thinking about the 40C viscosity, which is a 5cSt difference. It would be greater as the temperature gets lower.