Ewwwwww 3 series Gran Trismo??

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97tbird

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The mazda 6 "hatch" looks about 25x better than THAT hideous BMW, - it looks all out of proportion and bloated in the back - Chevy Citation-sque.
 
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Anyone remember the olds cutlass salon? laugh I'm not too sure about Venzas, I had one roll into the tire shop for snow changeover and I could only fit two of its 19" summer tires in the cargo area; the other two had to ride in the rear seat. Dumb tires stretched the tire bags all out too. IMO a proper wagon ought to be able to haul four of its own tires in the back where they should go.
 
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Originally Posted By: Miller88
I'd rather have a station wagon.
agreed, there is no point in this doggy taking a poop stance famously coined by jeremy clarkson.
 
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Originally Posted By: 97tbird
why do they keep building this butt-fugly gran trismos/coupes?
BMW alienated most of their core buyer in the 80s with similar "what were they thinking?" styling and have been doing just that ever since. A group of people likes a styling generation of BMW, then they completely change it and all the old BMW guys hate the new ones and swear off BMW, but a new crowd who thought old BMW's were dated and all the same comes in and loves the new generation. Just an observation. smile
 

97tbird

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^^^ Sigh - that's true, I guess, and is a sign of the times, and I get that. But they also seem to go further and further away from the "driver's car" theme, too...
 
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Originally Posted By: 97tbird
^^^ Sigh - that's true, I guess, and is a sign of the times, and I get that. But they also seem to go further and further away from the "driver's car" theme, too...
Yep. Our E21 320i is 10x the drivers car of the E46 and that's 1.5x the drivers car of the E90. It's slow, it has low limits, I'm sure there isn't a track in the world where it would have any chance of doing any damage to any E30 or beyond, but [censored] if it isn't engaging to drive. Every little bit about it communicates with the driver. No power steering, no ABS, no stability control, great sightlines, strong brakes, good balance... And the thing is that the E21 was sacrilege to the 2002 guys. They said it was too heavy, too big, too far from being a true "drivers car".
 
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I do not think it is anywhere near the 5 ugliest cars. In fact I think it is fairly handsome. The C pillar is a little chunky but it is no where near as bad as a Crosstour. That is also on of the less flattering photographs of it currently online. I predict it sells better in the United States than the wagon if both are offered.
 
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Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Why are Americans so wagon averse? A 3 series wagon is just a better car.
The biggest reason is that many older Americans grew up in a station wagon, and associate it with their parents and those road trips they were forced to take. Another reason is that many people don't like a vehicle that is square. I am an American guy in my 20s, and to me, a station wagon is a car with more room. Anyway, what I like is the setup you see on a SAAB 900 or 9000. A nice stylish slope, and it is easier to load than a car with a trunk. As cars got more aerodynamic, the trunk lid had to be shortened. That also made loading stuff in a sedan more difficult. Ever have to load a MKIV Jetta? It is much easier to load a MKIII
 

97tbird

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Originally Posted By: artificialist
The biggest reason is that many older Americans grew up in a station wagon, and associate it with their parents and those road trips they were forced to take.
This is very true - I have often noticed that this is the primary reason for a lot of American station-wagon phobia... I still wonder what the reason for the hatchback phobia is... does it somehow give off a cheap-ish vibe? (not to me). Or one can't see the need for compact hatches in general, as parking is not such a big problem as it is in europe, for example.
 
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Remember now also that kids have to be in car seats in the rear until they're 4'9". My 5 y/o can now barely handle his own seat belt harness: they make the button very stiff for anti-escape reasons. This means the parent needs head room in the back to buckle everyone up. Also, "shotgun" is unused much of the time if it's just one parent driving while the other is at work. This demands a 3rd row seat "one kid sooner", which, demographically, is huge when deciding demand and what to produce. I buck the trend and stuff everyone in a 21 year old volvo 940 wagon. LOL
 
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Did BMW borrow the body dies from Honda? A real station wagon is more utilitarian and can look pretty classy, like the 123 wagon or a Volvo wagon. Station wagons were at one time regarded as high end cars relative to sedans. This thing is ugly and has little to offer from a utilitarian point of view.
 

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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Did BMW borrow the body dies from Honda? A real station wagon is more utilitarian and can look pretty classy, like the 123 wagon or a Volvo wagon. Station wagons were at one time regarded as high end cars relative to sedans. This thing is ugly and has little to offer from a utilitarian point of view.
This isn't a wagon, it is more like a fastback. This is a wagon/Estate (BMW only makes one in a 3-series at this point): BMW did however use to make a 5-series wagon:
 
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Well I'm younger, when I grew up parents drove SUV's and minivans...maybe that's why I don't really like either. Wagons can be cool! CTSV, M5, E63 AMG, RS6, etc, many cool estates!
 
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