EVs are 61% cleaner than gas in Minnesota

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http://www.autoblog.com/2016/05/10/minnesota-ev-pollute-less-than-gas/ Quote (small excerpt) "...The 61-percent figure is reached under the worst of conditions, given the "higher carbon intensity" of gas refined in Minnesota compared to the rest of the US. Factor in the growing offerings of power from renewable resources such as water and wind, and that greenhouse-gas reduction climbs to as much as 95 percent. Within an average car's lifetime mileage of about 160,000 miles, an EV emits at least 46 fewer tons of greenhouse gases than conventional vehicles. To quote Deep Purple, that's a lot of Smoke on the Water in the Land of 10,000 Lakes..."
 
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No argument with the notion EVs are cleaner than traditional autos. But note the "75% oil sands" reference, effectively comparing EVs in this analysis to the dirtiest possible way to extract crude oil.
 
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Another study that came out recently said that TOTAL emissions from electrics / hybrids are generally no less than their gasoline counterparts. Since they're on average heavier than their gas counterparts, they put out as much additional brake dust and tire particles as the reduction in exhaust emissions.
 
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Originally Posted By: kam327
Another study that came out recently said that TOTAL emissions from electrics / hybrids are generally no less than their gasoline counterparts. Since they're on average heavier than their gas counterparts, they put out as much additional brake dust and tire particles as the reduction in exhaust emissions.
Doesn't sound too probable given all hybrids and electrics use regenerative braking... Also the electric/hybrid cars seem to be about the same weight as the gas competition. The Tesla S is 4400-4600lbs just like every other luxo-barge. I think the future will be home solar generation and storage for electric cars anyways. Giant grids and power stations seem expensive as small scale generation gets cheaper.
 
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Originally Posted By: kam327
Another study that came out recently said that TOTAL emissions from electrics / hybrids are generally no less than their gasoline counterparts. Since they're on average heavier than their gas counterparts, they put out as much additional brake dust and tire particles as the reduction in exhaust emissions.
This study is probably sponsored by oil industry to discredit zero emission vehicles. Brake dust and tire particles of any vehicle type (ZEV(Zero Emission Vehicle) or PIH(Plug In Hybrid) or ICE) are very little compares with pollution from exhaust of ICE. I never saw any emission study mentions Brake dust and tire particles. This study didn't include the electric generated by coal and oil and natural gas.
 
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: kam327
Another study that came out recently said that TOTAL emissions from electrics / hybrids are generally no less than their gasoline counterparts. Since they're on average heavier than their gas counterparts, they put out as much additional brake dust and tire particles as the reduction in exhaust emissions.
Doesn't sound too probable given all hybrids and electrics use regenerative braking... Also the electric/hybrid cars seem to be about the same weight as the gas competition. The Tesla S is 4400-4600lbs just like every other luxo-barge. I think the future will be home solar generation and storage for electric cars anyways. Giant grids and power stations seem expensive as small scale generation gets cheaper.
Regenerative braking doesn't work worth a bleep in stop and go traffic. Works good on a mile long freight train, though.
 
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One should note for the purposes of this analysis, it is assumed that the bulk of the crude oil used is tar sands oil - the refineries in the Twin Cities are long time refiners of Heavy Sour Crude from Canada. Historically, the majority of US refiners were not equipped to refine this product, and thus our refiners enjoyed lower cost supplies. As oil prices skyrocketed, many more refiners upgraded their capabilities to handle this product. Nationally, these statistics would look different as the US refining mix is much different than the local refining picture.
 
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Originally Posted By: kam327
Another study that came out recently said that TOTAL emissions from electrics / hybrids are generally no less than their gasoline counterparts. Since they're on average heavier than their gas counterparts, they put out as much additional brake dust and tire particles as the reduction in exhaust emissions.
Well such is the result of open publishing. And the topic of are EVs just as dirty as gasoline cars is the topic with a thousand studies, so you can find a lot of ones with results to match your preconceived notions, or to be interesting tidbits to maek you feel smarter. Last week tonight just covered this exact topic of Science Studies last Sunday. Science is not 100% one way and 0% the other way and it gets messy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rnq1NpHdmw The result is there will always be Studies, and then a result will be people who say but what about study X which finds the opposite you're just picking and choosing. Eventually science will come closer to Truth, but it may clouded, and spun by special interests; PR and the rest of it. Just be aware that this happens
 

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Do they include the mining and manufacture of the battery banks in this or just the vehicle itself? I don't see it mentioned in the article shrug So my guess is no.... Nor do they factor in the periodic replacement of that battery bank.
 
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What about engine oil? Gearbox/transmission oil? Coolant? Production, refining, transportation of all of those? Is that accounted for on the gasser side? How about oil leaks from engines? I thought there was a stat that more oil leaks out annually from passenger vehicles than the Exxon Valdez?
 
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Time is key here. The fact that EV, now in its mass appeal infancy, can already be compared to the ICE in terms of overall costs, puts a feather in that technologies hat. Time marches on.
 

OVERKILL

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Originally Posted By: surfstar
What about engine oil? Gearbox/transmission oil? Coolant? Production, refining, transportation of all of those? Is that accounted for on the gasser side? How about oil leaks from engines? I thought there was a stat that more oil leaks out annually from passenger vehicles than the Exxon Valdez?
Gearbox oil likely applies to the EV's as well. But good point about the other leaks. And then we have the bunker fuel burned trucking the batteries or their components over from China. The Maersk consumes, at minimum, 1,660 gal/hour of bunker fuel, which has 2,000 times the sulphur content of automotive fuel. Of course this applies to other things that come from China too. There is so much pollution.....
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Do they include the mining and manufacture of the battery banks in this or just the vehicle itself? I don't see it mentioned in the article shrug So my guess is no.... Nor do they factor in the periodic replacement of that battery bank.
The chart clearly accounts for vehicle and battery manufacturing. Hint: it's the blue part. wink
 

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Richard Feynman once said,
Quote:
Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.
As is usual in politicized science, journalists use slanted stats to advance their agendas.
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Do they include the mining and manufacture of the battery banks in this or just the vehicle itself? I don't see it mentioned in the article shrug So my guess is no.... Nor do they factor in the periodic replacement of that battery bank.
thumbsup
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: surfstar
What about engine oil? Gearbox/transmission oil? Coolant? Production, refining, transportation of all of those? Is that accounted for on the gasser side? How about oil leaks from engines? I thought there was a stat that more oil leaks out annually from passenger vehicles than the Exxon Valdez?
Gearbox oil likely applies to the EV's as well. But good point about the other leaks. And then we have the bunker fuel burned trucking the batteries or their components over from China. The Maersk consumes, at minimum, 1,660 gal/hour of bunker fuel, which has 2,000 times the sulphur content of automotive fuel. Of course this applies to other things that come from China too. There is so much pollution.....
A gas car will probably use more mass of just engine oil over its life time than an EV will use batteries... The mass of fuel is huge, even my 30mpg car, for 20k miles is almost 5000lbs/year... Electric charge on the other hand, can be made in your backyard.
 
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
A gas car will probably use more mass of just engine oil over its life time than an EV will use batteries... The mass of fuel is huge, even my 30mpg car, for 20k miles is almost 5000lbs/year... Electric charge on the other hand, can be made in your backyard.
Solar is $1,000/KW installed down here...3KW on the roof gets you about 15KWh a day...a Tesla would need 6 days charging at that rate...or a $20K solar array, and I don't think many australian's have that roof space. My FIL has about 6KW before he ran out of roof.
 
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