European Royality and North American Peasants

Messages
1,488
Location
Los Angeles
The major oil companies treat European consumers like royality and North American consumers like peasants. This is obvious when you look at our selection of oils compared to what the European consumers are offered. They get Helix Ultra and Formula R. They gives us M1 and expect us to be happy. When we grumble they throw us a crumb like GC and to pacify our ramblings. Why can't we have the same oils as our European counter parts. It is obvious, the oil companies view the Europeans as enlightened consumers and the people of North America as ignorant boobs.
 
Messages
250
Location
Phoenix, AZ USA
quote:
Originally posted by SSDude: Why can't we have the same oils as our European counter parts. (SIC) It is obvious, the oil companies view the Europeans as enlightened consumers and the people of North America as ignorant boobs.
Perhaps it's because the oil companies set the standards in the US while the auto companies set them in Europe. The European auto companies require what's best for the car while in the US the oil companies give us what's best for the oil companies.
 
Messages
43,676
Location
'Stralia
Still, when you ask what the europeans are paying for oil, they are getting charged like they are royalty also. Mobil 1 is $12/litre down here. GTX is $5/litre Pennzoil LongLife is $6 per litre.
 
Messages
1,565
Location
palm beach
wow thats some expensive prices. i think i will stick to being pasified with mobil 1 and all the cheap oils! i would rather be an "american boob" and have cheap oil and petrol than a royal brit or aussie and pay x4 as much.
 
Messages
2,964
Location
Georgia/Retired
I travel frequently to Europe and get to sample their motoring habits a bit. When Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 was popular I was going to buy a case and ship it home to try here. That oil sold for €17.99 per liter [Eek!] Holy smokes!! I have a car that didn't cost me as much as a oil change would with that stuff. And some of the high line cars take up to 10 liters of oils. But this is not normal. I don't know if everyone is aware but there are Wal-Mart stores scattered throughout Europe. They sell the cheapy mineral oils and the cheesy oil additivs just like they do here. You'll see some guy reading the bottle labels and making comparisons and then walk down and get the no-name filter to save a cent or two. So while they do have some nice products there it is not like everyone puts the fancy stuff in their Ford Ka. It really isn't so different from here. One difference is that you just don't see oil stains on the parking lots. If your car leaks oil it won't pass the TÜV.
 

TC

Messages
1,644
Location
California
"...the oil companies set the standards in the US..." By all accounts the U.S. auto manufacturers have very HEAVY influence on upcoming oil classifications and performance standards. With upcoming GF-4 and SM, for example, Ford has performed extensive testing with fleets using a lighter viscosity, low-phosphorus oil meeting the above specs. Evidently part of the delay in GF-4 and SM has been players' (including auto firms') concerns that the new oils both perform sufficiently and provide reasonable backwards-compatibility. I suspect the fact the European oil change intervals are much longer than ours, coupled with so many high-tech, big-bucks engines to protect (BMW, Merdedes, Porsche, etc.), make for more robust -- and more costly -- European lubes. In comparison, perhaps an "SL" Ford Taurus V-6 motor oil, changed every 6,000 miles, has the easy life... [ March 09, 2004, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
 
Messages
19
Location
Montréal
Maybe oil requirements are different too ? At 120km/h my V6 3.5l engine is peacefully purring around 2000 rpm (redline at 6500), while maybe an European 1.3l four banger is much stressed at same useage ? Gosh, they even have 1.1 l three-bangers ! Works fine for great mpg when going to the grocery, but imagine those under some load ! [Canada]
 
Messages
1,053
Location
Daytona Beach
"Perhaps it's because the oil companies set the standards in the US while the auto companies set them in Europe. The European auto companies require what's best for the car while in the US the oil companies give us what's best for the oil companies." With CAFE ratings etc. I think you need to say that the government sets the standards in the US. At least the oil companies' positions are HEAVILY influenced by the govt. The govt. of course knows NOTHING about making motor oil...but that will not deter them from making rules for the oil companies to follow; under penalty of law. The only thing I CAN'T figure out is why motor oil does not cost $12.00/L in the U.S.
 
Messages
12,385
Location
Northern CA
quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyG: The govt. of course knows NOTHING about making motor oil...but that will not deter them from making rules for the oil companies to follow; under penalty of law. The only thing I CAN'T figure out is why motor oil does not cost $12.00/L in the U.S.
US Gummnt influence on oil specs is primarily indirect. The gummnt gives car manufacturers a set of hoops to jump through and the oil companies are forced to do their part to help the car manufacuerers jump through the hoops. End result is the same though. Difference in oil cost is probably mostly taxes.
 
Messages
605
Location
Mississauga, Ontario
The difference in price maybe due to the difference in crude oil prices? Same reason why gas is also more expensive in Europe? Also the high end European oils probably use more expensive base stocks too?
 
Messages
13,132
Location
By Detroit
I once emailed similar questions to both Valvoline USA and Valvoline Europe. Valvoline USA gave me a minimal response with a legal disclaimer at the bottom. Valvoline Europe gave me an informative response and no disclaimer. Now the subject of my question was Valvoline Maxlife and the quality of oil offered seems reverse of the quality of the responses: when I look at the tech data our Maxlife looks a lot better than the European stuff.
 

TC

Messages
1,644
Location
California
"CAR MANUFACTURERS - LUBRICANT INFLUENCE" "New specifications for passenger car motor oils are driven by the Car Manufacturers. They (the manufacturers) are responding to government regulations for better fuel economy and improvements in emissions limits. The car manufacturers are demanding motor oils that will help improve CAFÉ numbers (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) and help reduce pollutant emissions. The continuing demand for improved performance necessitates new motor oil specifications being implemented every two to four years...New standards mean new formulations and (API/ILSAC) licensing requirements." http://www.cam2.com/june_2002.htm Note how this article starts off with "New specifications for passenger car motor oils are driven by the Car Manufacturers." Washington (evidently) only instructs Detroit on CAFE requirements and smog control equipment longevity, and it's up to Detroit to determine how to get there. From there, one hears these two myths: 1. Thin oils (5w-20, etc) cause inordinate engine wear in new engines. Wrong. Plenty of 5w-20 UOAs with iron/lead wear below 10 ppm -- see the UOA forum. 2. Reducing zinc and phosphorus levels to reduce cat converter contamination will cause inordinate engine wear. Wrong. See #1 above. "The viscosity grade(s) recommended by the vehicle manufacturer depend somewhat on engine design. Engine manufacturers have spent considerable time and expense experimenting with different viscosity grades and have indicated in the owner's manual the grades they feel will best protect the engine at specific temperatures. While one manufacturer's engine may require an SAE 10W-30, another manufacturer's engine may require an SAE 5W-20 viscosity grade. This is likely due to different tolerances within the engine or other engine design factors." http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/carcare/whattoknow.asp
 
In Europe engines are smaller bacause gas costs 4 times more than in the USA. Some little motors, and I mean little (1.0, 1.2l) revv way up there in order to deliver any power. They need fairly customized oils to stay alive for reasonable number of kilometers. Europe is also on 10,000 kilometer OCI. I guess Jiffy Lube didn't brainwash them with the 3k intervals [Razz]
 
Messages
526
Location
Manitoba Canada
quote:
Originally posted by TC: "...the oil companies set the standards in the US..." By all accounts the U.S. auto manufacturers have very HEAVY influence on upcoming oil classifications and performance standards. With upcoming GF-4 and SM, for example, Ford has performed extensive testing with fleets using a lighter viscosity, low-phosphorus oil meeting the above specs. Evidently part of the delay in GF-4 and SM has been players' (including auto firms') concerns that the new oils both perform sufficiently and provide reasonable backwards-compatibility. I suspect the fact the European oil change intervals are much longer than ours, coupled with so many high-tech, big-bucks engines to protect (BMW, Merdedes, Porsche, etc.), make for more robust -- and more costly -- European lubes. In comparison, perhaps an "SL" Ford Taurus V-6 motor oil, changed every 6,000 miles, has the easy life...
Bull. The EPA CAFE has a VERY heavy influence on what type of oil to use. Thanks to their theoretical "gain" in fuel economy running a water thin oil, the car maker earns CAFE "credits" which are used to minimise or eleminate gas guzzler fines. This still leaves us with a giant SUV that gets 10 MPG and rated as a "green" vehicle. They really don't care how long the car lasts, as long as they make it through warranty, good enough. We pay the same price per barrel of crude as the Europeans do, thanks to OPEC. Most of the higher price in oil is reflected in the fact that the Europeans build-in the environmental cost of oil changes. We have this fiction here that you should change the oil every 2,000-3,000 miles. Though I suppose if you use a 69 cent a quart "Starburst" oil, maybe you had BETTER change the oil that often. Have you ever compared ACEA specs to API/SAE "Starburst" specs? An oil here passes the test with flying colors if: Oil thickens +275% (Used to be +375% under SH), 25% of the oil can vaporise (Used to be 35% under SH), you're allowed cold stuck rings, and the test technician is allowed to add 6.5 liters of makeup oil during the 96 hour test. In contrast, ACEA A3/A5/B4-02 oils are run +200 hours. Oil can only thicken 50%, less than 15% is allowed to vaporise, no stuck rings allowed. And the test technician is NOT allowed to add makeup oil. So when gasoline shoots up to $3-$4 a gallon like it is in other parts of the world, and we have to get rid of our 10 MPG giant SUV and drive a little 1 litre 3 cylinder economy car, wonder how well that cheap "Starburst" oil will protect it? In the meantime, if a "Starburst" oil protects your motor well, especially some overpowered thing that loafs along, then keep using it. Also keep changing it every 2,000-3,000 miles to keep the local Qwicke Lube While You Wait happy. On the subject of lighter oils, wonder why the Europeans all don't use xW-20 oils to gain that theoretical 0.6% in fuel economy? After all, their fuel costs 3X-4X what it does here. Jerry
 
Top