European OEM's and their EV timelines
- Thread starter OVERKILL
- Start date
You do realize that they already do that now. High gas taxes in Europe push people to smaller cars. EV tax credits in the US to push people toward EVs. I could go on and on.
Great point, It’s a huge issue, we sold our house and are currently getting a sweet heart deal leasing a little old lady’s condo. Plans are to build a house or buy another house and do a massive DIY renovation in the next 8 or so months (different story for a different threads) which would make this a moot point. We looked at all sorts of luxury apartment rentals few hundred unit mid rises, very affluent customer base, rents way more than a mortgage and they all had maybe 3/4 charging docks all in at each one. Our 1 car garage doesn’t have a 240v and I guess from my conversations with the neighbors the condo board isn’t jumping to let everyone get them installed. We have a charging docks few up front next to the fitness areas and pool, but I mean there just isn’t a lot of space for them and who is going to buy a $40k car to then park so far from their front door? Unless I was very old and very settled I’m not sure I’d jump to go EV outside of Tesla, purely for the rapid charging network.
In europe manufacturers risk to be fined 95 euro per gram of CO2 over 95/km for the entire fleet. So if you sold 100k vehicles, and the average C02 output is 105 grams, that means 10 x 95 x 100k = 95 million euro fine... the cost of which will be added to ICE cars I'm sure.
That also drives the EV timelines for european manufacturers as those count as 0 gram vehicles and really bring the average down. It also stimulates the sale of hybrids, though they have less impact.
That also drives the EV timelines for european manufacturers as those count as 0 gram vehicles and really bring the average down. It also stimulates the sale of hybrids, though they have less impact.
Well govt is going to have to provide some heavy subsidies to encourage buyers. The WSJ has an interesting article on VW and their problems with the ID.3. They unlike Tesla can't afford to build only expensive 100k models and then trickle down to the cheaper models. They have to compete with the Model 3 immediately. In any case allegedly the VW ID.3 outsold the Model 3 in December so who knows. One thing is certain and that it's difficult to transition a company built on mechanical engineering into one built on software engineering.
Isn't it that already with luddites like me around? Anti-keyless ignition, anti-TPMS, so on and so forth...
Maybe ... but you still use motor oil and filters.
Drive a Model 3. Welcome to the dark side. There is no going back; they are that good.
I'm sure they are. I'm sure it has a nice, simple to read, non-backlit dashboard that will be easy on the eyes while driving in the dark. And easy to use controls that don't require me to read an owners manual. And a low beltline with great 360 degree visibility. And nice high profile tires to soak up road imperfections while being nice and cheap, inline with being an economical car. Cheap to reproduce keys, so all members of the family can have their own copy.
Last car I bought was $1,500. I'm sure a $40k car ought to beat it, right?
Nah, IIRC they didn't have very good acceleration, braking or cornering. I also think they had pretty high emissions too? and lousy crash protection? not even sure if they had seatbelts...
Just has to be better than my Camry, that's all.
At what?
Lately cars seem more expensive, have features I didn't want, and seem to suffer from poor visibility, poor headlights, and expensive things I didn't need (like keys). Going fast is nice, 0-60 that is, but so is getting low TCO. If anything, low TCO is more important to me than most anything else, although not having to do repairs for as long as possible is nice too.
You know, being an appliance.
Our Model 3 saves money on keys cuz there ain't any.
Our Model 3 saves money on maintenance cuz there aint any.
Our Model 3 saves money on gas cuz it ain't got a gas tank.
Saves money on knobs too. Ain't but 2. Just say, "Set the temperature to 72 degrees."
Brakes last 100K or so.
Personally I like $1,500 Camrys. Pretty hard to beat in many ways.
All good.
All fair points. I just can't stomach the high initial price to save money over a 10 or 20 year lifespan. Not when roadsalt will kill the car before it's actually worn out, meaning I might not actually recoup that cost. As I get older I'm finding I have less money to spend on cars.
I've been mulling over how to get an EV but between range anxiety and initial cost, then TCO, I'm not sure I can justify it.
I've been mulling over how to get an EV but between range anxiety and initial cost, then TCO, I'm not sure I can justify it.
Fair enough.
I'd say a new EV or new anything probably isnt for you.
Lots to be said for 1500 camrys that require no maintenance and run forever.
I've never been able to find one but if you can find them thats awesome.
I have range anxiety in any vehicle when Im below 1/8th tank and I dont know where the next gas station is.
I dont get range anxiety in Teslas because I always know exactly where the next charger is and that I can get to it.
If I had to rely on the Ionity network today Id be nervous.
Beater Camrys ROCK!
I bought a 1 owner, well used $1,000 Camry last year. This was for a family with 3 small children.
Father drove a truck for work, but Mom had nothing but a junk Nissan something... Didn't run.
Car shook terribly at speed; new rubber and alignment fixed that right up.
I had to get the roof painted due to clear coat separation.
Besides that, fluid changes, plugs and filters was it. Soap and water.
I forget; maybe $2,500 all in. Dang thing is gonna run for ever.
A friend and I split the cost; my labor was a big fat nothing.
They were so grateful. Beater Camrys ROCK! And can be a perfect solution.
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I took a quick look yesterday and it's
- 11 miles one way to the grocery store
- 20 miles one way to Walmart, Home Depot etc in the small city
- 40 miles one way to the larger city that has more stores
- 54 miles one way to work
As for cheap Camry's I haven't looked in a while but I bought one four years ago for $1,500. I put about $1,500 into it in the first year; I bought knowing I would spend $1k on deferred items (real close--it was $1,200) and the rest was upgrades (trailer hitch and stereo). I've driven about 84k since then, looks like $14k TCO (purchase, fuel, repairs, insurance, registration). Nothing wrong with the car at the moment, only has 228k on the clock.
Reliability hasn't been great--it went 2 or 3 years, then needed front pads/rotors/calipers, swaybar links, radiator and alternator in the span of a month, give or take. Recently I had to toss LCA's at it. Not quite as reliable as my wife's Camry, which in 220k has only needed a set of brakes. Ok, both cars need tires every 40k, can't forget that. But her Camry was $20k to purchase, then toss in fuel--I don't have the TCO number but I'd probably be very sad at the price tag...
Not sure what I'd replace either with, so I try to pay attention to these threads. Supposedly EV's are cheaper to run than ICE's, so I'm trying to pay attention.
People ask me about buying and owning a Model 3 all the time.
There is no doubt they are cheaper to operate, once you get past the purchase price. And dependable as heck due to few moving drivetrain parts.
1st thing, can you charge at home? You need a 240v dedicated line and a NEMA 14-50 recepticle. This gets you 28 to 32 MPH. A 110v gets you a whopping 4 MPH.
2nd, these cars are expensive. A new base Model 3 is $36,500 plux T&L. You can get a decent used 2018 Model 3 Mid Range (270 miles) for about $35K, nicely optioned. EAP, alloy wheels, deluxe interior.
A Chevy Bolt is another way yo go. I don't know much about them except people love 'em. Leases are dirt cheap.
A Bolt or Std Range Plus Midel 3 gets you 260 mile range. Remember, you will likely get less depending on freeway vs around town, cold weather, etc.
These cars are not for everyone. I can tell you you will not find a more exciting car to drive than any Model 3, at least at that money.
Tesla is expected to offer a $25K version of the Model 3 in the future; maybe 2 years? Dunno.
Good luck.
