European OEM's and their EV timelines

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44,679
Location
Ontario, Canada
It's interesting looking at the European commitments to EV's, and in many respects, hybrids, in terms of fleet makeup. I recently got an Audi magazine (because of the e-tron purchase) and I was surprised at how short their timeline is on phasing in significant electrification across their product lines.

Mercedes:
Mercedes said:
Mercedes-Benz is quickly picking up the pace with regard to the electrification of the automobile. On the road to emission-free driving, the developers use a host of control levers to reduce emissions on a lasting basis. By 2022, the entire Mercedes-Benz Cars product range is set to be electrified. This means that different electrified alternatives will be available in every segment – from smart to large SUVs. These activities are bundles under the new product and technology brand EQ: The vehicles themselves are divided into EQ Boost (electrified combustion engines), EQ Power (plug-in hybrids) and EQ (all-electric vehicles). The focus very clearly lies on gradually increasing the percentage of all-electric cars in the product range of Mercedes-Benz Cars.

Audi:
Audi said:
Our aim is for all our production sites to become CO2 neutral, resources to be recycled, water to be reused and introduce 100 per cent green electricity... This strategy was the basis for our current product offensive and the push for E-mobility. The plan for 2025 is for the Audi product portfolio to include more than 30 models with E-engines, which would mean 40 per cent of our sales volume worldwide.

BMW:
BMW said:
lectromobility is in BMW’s genes. The BMW i3 and the BMW i8 electric sports car have been setting benchmarks in e-mobility since 2013. In that time, BMW has significantly expanded its range of BMW eDrive, BMW hybrid and BMW plug-in hybrid vehicles. By 2030, half of all newly certified BMW vehicles will feature fully-electric or plug-in hybrid drive systems. BMW already has everything in place to make that possible. Battery modules, high-voltage batteries and electric motors are built in Dingolfing. From 2021, the new BMW iX will also roll off the production line there. In Munich, BMW Group is already developing the next generation of battery cells, which are manufactured at the pilot plant in Parsdorf and tested on the eDrive system test bench in Munich.

I know that other historically European marques that have a presence in North America like Land Rover, Jaguar, Aston-Martin...etc are also already producing, or working on phasing in electric vehicles, but these companies are now owned by foreign interests so I've not included them in the above.

How many people on here besides the few that already have BEV's are looking at one in the future or at least a plug-in hybrid? Not to get political, but Canada is introducing a "clean fuel standard" which is kinda like a carbon tax in addition to our existing carbon tax which is supposed to drive up average consumer fuel costs by $550/year, which may push some people that direction.
 
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5,576
Location
Los Gatos, CA
Unless it is a used pickup or another Lexus GS, I doubt we will buy another ICE vehicle. But ya never know...
We have a 2021 Lexus RX450h coming that will replace Sue's current RX, which was a (stupid) lease.

I am very interested to see how all these EVs get charged. I believe Germany is a leader; let's see how others address this issue.
Opportunity abounds!
 
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4,585
Location
Southeast
We’ve got a 15 crv with 50k, a 14 gs350 with 75k and an 18 f150 with 30k. Unless one of these gets hit, I see the next vehicle being electric. these should carry us a good decade or more. Unfortunately, the gs350 and f150 return about identical mpg in our drive cycles, so if they add more gas tax, we’ll feel it there.

I will probably not be an early adopter. The only one I’d consider right now would be the Volvo breed - but I’m waiting for battery tech that doesn’t weigh like you've got half a volkswagon strapped under the car.

that said, I’m all for it. And yes, the grid will catch up, and perhaps we’ll see some technology improvements there too. The demand will force changes. Ideas like the Tesla power wall, which now has competition, and increased PV, get my vote.
 
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9,963
Location
MA
No place around me to charge in the city. Many other people in the city are in the same boat. Probably a V6 will still be the next car. I'd like a V8 but too much traffic and pointless in the city. No 4 cylinder though.
 

OVERKILL

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Messages
44,679
Location
Ontario, Canada
No place around me to charge in the city. Many other people in the city are in the same boat. Probably a V6 will still be the next car. I'd like a V8 but too much traffic and pointless in the city. No 4 cylinder though.

You can't charge at home? I have a 50A plug in my driveway now from the e-tron saga. I originally thought I should have kept that car, but the reality is that I should have pushed them on putting me in the turquoise one I had test driven in the fall and they still had. It was better appointed and I probably would have kept it even with my wife's dislike of it. The cheaper seats and lack of extended leather drove me nuts at that price point.

Our major mall has a pile of public chargers now, including some Tesla ones too at a slightly different location in the lot. I think Costco is putting some in too? But for driving locally, I'd never pay to charge, that'd be insane, I'd just charge at home.
 
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9,963
Location
MA
You can't charge at home? I have a 50A plug in my driveway now from the e-tron saga. I originally thought I should have kept that car, but the reality is that I should have pushed them on putting me in the turquoise one I had test driven in the fall and they still had. It was better appointed and I probably would have kept it even with my wife's dislike of it. The cheaper seats and lack of extended leather drove me nuts at that price point.

Our major mall has a pile of public chargers now, including some Tesla ones too at a slightly different location in the lot. I think Costco is putting some in too? But for driving locally, I'd never pay to charge, that'd be insane, I'd just charge at home.

Don't have a driveway in the city. Got a parking lot. Which is several feet away from home.

Pretty much most housing in the city is like that. Condo/apartment complex. Parking lot or underground garage. Not exactly easy to put in an outlet anywhere. I can however drive to any gas station and fill up in a few minutes.
 
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216
Location
Atlanta, GA
VW dove in head first - this might be one bright side of dieselgate.

They killed the Passat to make room for the CUV electric. Being the first mainstream brand offering an electric that looks like a gasser is kind of big, I'm curious to see how the ID.4 does and if it eats into sales of the Tiguan.
 

OVERKILL

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44,679
Location
Ontario, Canada
Don't have a driveway in the city. Got a parking lot. Which is several feet away from home.

Pretty much most housing in the city is like that. Condo/apartment complex. Parking lot or underground garage. Not exactly easy to put in an outlet anywhere. I can however drive to any gas station and fill up in a few minutes.

Ahhh, sounds like your living situation is similar to my sister's when she lived in Toronto. IIRC, many of those buildings and all the parking garages have charge stations now, but of course you'd be paying a premium to use them, so not like charging at home unfortunately.
 
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4,050
Location
Ca.
Its going to be a while before anything powered by a battery will replace my trucks, but I doubt my next passenger vehicle will be gasoline powered.

I'm not at all surprised to see the Euros accelerating their BEV programs given the beating they have been doled in segments they used to lead handily in.

What will be interesting to see is if they can actually be competitive in a given segment and still make any money building the vehicles.

What they are good at is coach building, and chassis tuning. Their engine and drivetrain knowledge doesn't help them here.

Aside from the I3 they are currently building electrified Ice vehicles vs ground up BEV's and all of them so far lack -

Unified control
Direct to customer sales model
OTA updates to more than the map
Pack manufacturing at scale
Ownership and control of a (non dealer located) charging network
Giant casting machines to reduce part count dramatically.
The holistic charge to wheels efficiency in terms of KWH/Mile

This will be interesting to watch.
 
Messages
9,963
Location
MA
Ahhh, sounds like your living situation is similar to my sister's when she lived in Toronto. IIRC, many of those buildings and all the parking garages have charge stations now, but of course you'd be paying a premium to use them, so not like charging at home unfortunately.
I haven't really seen them in the city and I'm a real estate broker so I go all over the place. Maybe it will take off one of these days. There are various charging stations located in various sections of the city, but none are close so it's not like it's just a block or two away.

It's basically at the fad level for now in the city. Will take a few more years for the infrastructure to build out to even make it an acceptable option. Big issue is probably the hassle factor, who wants to park the car to charge it and then come back a little while later to move it so someone else can use the charger. Half the cars you see in the city are beaters anyway, who wants to pay top dollar for a car that gets beat up by the city?
 

OVERKILL

Thread starter
Messages
44,679
Location
Ontario, Canada
I haven't really seen them in the city and I'm a real estate broker so I go all over the place. Maybe it will take off one of these days. There are various charging stations located in various sections of the city, but none are close so it's not like it's just a block or two away.

It's basically at the fad level for now in the city. Will take a few more years for the infrastructure to build out to even make it an acceptable option. Big issue is probably the hassle factor, who wants to park the car to charge it and then come back a little while later to move it so someone else can use the charger. Half the cars you see in the city are beaters anyway, who wants to pay top dollar for a car that gets beat up by the city?
Plugshare would probably help you figure out how many there are that are public:

This is Toronto:
Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 3.12.11 PM.png

Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 3.13.08 PM.png


This is Peterborough (~100,000 people):
Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 3.17.33 PM.png
 
Messages
5,576
Location
Los Gatos, CA
I haven't really seen them in the city and I'm a real estate broker so I go all over the place. Maybe it will take off one of these days. There are various charging stations located in various sections of the city, but none are close so it's not like it's just a block or two away.

It's basically at the fad level for now in the city. Will take a few more years for the infrastructure to build out to even make it an acceptable option. Big issue is probably the hassle factor, who wants to park the car to charge it and then come back a little while later to move it so someone else can use the charger. Half the cars you see in the city are beaters anyway, who wants to pay top dollar for a car that gets beat up by the city?
Tesla Supercharger Map
 
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10,324
Location
Jupiter, Florida
I'm glad to see their plans to provide limited range electric drive.

However, as a homeowner who is selling my home and moving to a rental apartment, the likelihood of an EV being practical for me remains near nil. I just don't have the time to sit at a charger.
 
Messages
5,576
Location
Los Gatos, CA
However, as a homeowner who is selling my home and moving to a rental apartment, the likelihood of an EV being practical for me remains near nil. I just don't have the time to sit at a charger.
Apartment, Condo and Townhouse is the next big issue. More and more people are asking for the ability to charge their EVs.
Condo meetings are getting requests (demands?) to install 240v outlets or charging stations. Lotta controversy.

Charging at Superchargers can get expensive, especially non-Tesla sites.
I would not own an EV if I couldn't charge at home.
There are people who are surprised when they plug in their new Tesla to their 110v and see 4 MPH.
Perspective buyers ask me about our car; the 1st thing I ask is, "Can you afford this car?"
2nd is, "How you gonna charge it?" You would be surprised at some of the responses.
 
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17,087
Location
NH
I've been mulling this over but at the moment I don't have an economic incentive--even though used car prices are inflated they're still cheaper than a BEV. Payback would be a long time. I'm not sure when BEV's on the used market will represent both good value and low TCO.
 
Messages
5,576
Location
Los Gatos, CA
I've been mulling this over but at the moment I don't have an economic incentive--even though used car prices are inflated they're still cheaper than a BEV. Payback would be a long time. I'm not sure when BEV's on the used market will represent both good value and low TCO.
I'm not sure there has ever been an economic incentive for an EV or hybrid.
 
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