ethanol is a sham!!!!!!!

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So if we are buying 10% less in actual fuel and replacing it with corn, the farmers are happy and the Gov. thinks we arent having to spend as much money over sea's. But, using 10% corn in our fuel is causing more than a 10% decrease in fuel economy, causing us to actually have to buy more fuel in the longrun.....The farmers will continue to be happy.

Do our government reps have stocks in corn, kinda like they do in the open contracts with haliburton(sp)?
 
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Originally Posted By: 97prizm

Absolutely So. You have no Idea how much of a scam, and how much it takes out of our pockets. I've added a couple of articles Ethanol here and again here It make me really irritated as the so called "president" more like moron says "It will help us by reducing our dependance on foreign oil." But at what costs to US the taxpayer? I included a Stanford University article showing worse health benefits than without it. Another tech site also said the same thing Technocrat Enough is enough.


You seem to forget which free market president picked this winner.
 
Don't forget to look at the big picture that:

(1 )we North Americans are energy hogs for we have been relying on personal mode of transportations for so many decades, with poorly-planned/ailing transportation infrastructure that couldn't properly sustain the population activities that people still "believe" that driving an automobile is their "born" rights, kinda like their first amendment.

(2)so long as we and the short-sighted government still believe that such infrastructure and mentality holds and no dramatic changes to be put into action in anticipation for the future, we are, still, one of the biggest energy hogs in the world, consuming energy like you won't believe.

Side note:

(a )China is following the same "formula" as America RE: industrialisation and economic developments based on inefficient city and transportation planning --- meaning that they would resort to laying down lots of highways and byways instead of fortifying their railroad tracks, etc. As the need for personal/commercial mode of transportation grows in China, so is the need for energy (fossil fuel, anyone?)

China will take over the reigns of being the biggest energy consuming nation than US within the next 15 years or so.

(b )we North Americans have taken on a lifestyle that promotes inefficiency: body weights, creature comforts(that now came stock in automobile features and options), use of inefficient appliances/lifestyles, etc. and as long as we believe in such practice, cutting down of importation of foreign energy (e.g. fossil fuel, etc.) by means of introduction of domestically-produced energy substitutes (such as ethanol mixed with gasoline, etc.), will not make much difference in reduction of overall consumption of energy.

So, back to the subject of E-10, E-15 and/or energy consumption. I wouldn't comment of government policy but to take full accountability/blame on my own energy consumption to fuel my daily activities.

(*well, I should take it back: I only use my personal mode of transportation about 6 times a month, covering approx. 60kms in total; while other times I take public transportation (train) to work. I also use CFLs and high-efficiency 2-stage gas heater furnace (AFUE 96.7%) to warm my house, and perform regular energy audits on all things consumping energy/electricity).

Q.
 
Reguarding E85 - I would rather have the 85% pure grain alcohol before anything is added to it. They can keep the additives and the ramaining 15% gasoline.
grin.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: helix_rider
Reguarding E85 - I would rather have the 85% pure grain alcohol before anything is added to it. They can keep the additives and the ramaining 15% gasoline.
grin.gif



Moonshine! Ahhhh....never had it. Never will...well never say never...
 
You seem to forget which free market president picked this winner. [/quote]

Was it a president or was it congress, EPA, etc.?

Even ozone Al Gore said last week, it was political - to HELP the farmers. Which farmers, Archer Daniels (sp) Midland, and their buckets of political payoff money?
 
Title of this thread should be...ethanol (from corn) is a sham!!!!!

Ethanol is a great solution when produced from the right bio mass. The only thing wrong with ethanol is the way our government chose to use it as a political football.
 
Well the cattle farmers like it. For every bushel of corn that goes into the plant, about 18 pounds of corn comes out the other end. This byproduct has substantially more protein than the corn that went in, due to the 60% starch content being used up in the distilling process.

Great cattle feed. Sterile. No fungus, blight, nada, nothing, zip.

I really hated unleaded gas when it was first mandated. Cars ran like crp on that stuff. Now they do just fine.

Fast forward and they're making flex fuel vehicles cabable of running 85% ethanol. I ran some in one of mine and it ran just fine but the mileage was a bit less. I suspect you could try this in a 20 year-old car and maybe not make it around the block......

I'm not a scientist or chemist or arm-chair economist. What I do know is that making ethanol in this country puts people to work and reduces our dependence on foreign oil.

Next opinion, please.
 
i filled up my crown vic at speedway last week, 14 gallons of 87octane.

my previous tank netted me 230 miles.

this one did 140.

i got 10mpg.

i talked to a guy who works at autozone and he said people have been griping all day because they filled up at speedway and their mpg tanked.

my mother filled her focus zx3 at the same time/place i did and she got 215 miles per tank when she usually gets over 300.

i hate ethanol.
 
I to have run some tanks of ethanol,,gas mileage went to the dogs, I would suggest if u ran the 85 stuff, u go run some sta bil in ur tank to make sure u remove any water that may hve collected there, and maybe once a month when u use the 10 percent stuff IMHO. I use another kind of cleaner myself, but sta bil will work. I run about 400 to 500 gallons a month of gas, so I cant afford junk in the tank that collects there.
 
Originally Posted By: hooligan24
So if we are buying 10% less in actual fuel and replacing it with corn, the farmers are happy and the Gov. thinks we arent having to spend as much money over sea's. But, using 10% corn in our fuel is causing more than a 10% decrease in fuel economy, causing us to actually have to buy more fuel in the longrun.....The farmers will continue to be happy.

Do our government reps have stocks in corn, kinda like they do in the open contracts with haliburton(sp)?


Its all about lobbying and palm greasing...it has very little or nothing to do with the environment.
 
I also agree that the whole corn for ethanol fuel effort is a complete fiasco.

It's a get rich quick scam for the insider politicians and their cronies who got in on the deal early.

The carbon footprint to produce the corn is greater than the benefit derived from burning the fuel. So, at the going rate, the so called benefits are bogus.

Regarding the wild fuel mileage fluctuation claims, I don't buy it.

We've had E10 in Canada for at least ten years and had alcohol in the fuel for winter conditions for years before that. I own a 1996 Toyota T-100, bought off the lot new. It got between 22 and 24 mpg on the highway when new. It still gets the same mileage despite the change in alcohol to fuel ratio.
 
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